Sin is necessary for Heaven
#1
Chapter 38:

God also showed that sin would be no shame but an honour to man, for just as for every sin there is an answering pain in reality, so for every sin bliss is given to the same soul. Just as different sins are punished by different pains according to their seriousness, so shall they be rewarded by different joys in heaven according to the pain and sorrow they have caused the soul on earth. For the soul that shall come to heaven is so precious to God, and the place itself so glorious, that the goodness of God never allows the soul which will come there to sin without giving it a reward for suffering that sin. The sin suffered is made known without end, and the soul is blissfully restored by exceeding glories.

In this sight my understanding was lifted up into heaven, and there God suggested to my mind David and others without number in the Old Law. In the New Law he brought to my mind first how Mary Magdalene, Peter, Paul, Thomas of India, Jude, Saint John of Beverley and others, also without number, are known in the Church on earth with their sins, and how these sins are no shame to them but have been transformed to their glory. By this honour, our courteous Lord shows for them here, in part, something similar to what is done for them in fullness there, for there the token of sin is transformed into glory.

Mother Julian of Norwich, Revelations of Divine Love.


:pray2:
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#2
I understand the theology. It is touched upon in Jesus' parable of the lost sheep. "There shall be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents, than over ninety-nine righteous who need no repentance" (Luke 15:7). Even on earth we marvel when a great sinner repents and allows grace to transform him. The bigger the sinner, the greater the marvel. Look at Mary Magdalene. Better still is the person who allows suffering to transform him, especially if that suffering is brought about by his own past sins. I saw this happen when my sister died last year of cirrhosis of the liver.

But the title of the thread ("sin is necessary for heaven") is going to throw people. The baptized who have never sinned go to heaven. One of the loveliest meditations is that they possess in heaven a singular joy because they have never soiled their pure white robes.

- Lisa
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#3
This is the 'Felix culpa' theology, which is around since the 4th century, and may have so scriptural background, but it is theory only

The sentence for the topic is confusing. Either Jesus and the Holy Virgin is in the heaven without their sins. Also according to the the Franciscan theology, the Incarnation is the center of the world, and it could happen without sin.

Luther perverted the topic's statement to his 'sin boldly' statement

laszlo


(07-18-2009, 09:07 PM)Psalm26 Wrote: Chapter 38:

God also showed that sin would be no shame but an honour to man, for just as for every sin there is an answering pain in reality, so for every sin bliss is given to the same soul. Just as different sins are punished by different pains according to their seriousness, so shall they be rewarded by different joys in heaven according to the pain and sorrow they have caused the soul on earth. For the soul that shall come to heaven is so precious to God, and the place itself so glorious, that the goodness of God never allows the soul which will come there to sin without giving it a reward for suffering that sin. The sin suffered is made known without end, and the soul is blissfully restored by exceeding glories.

In this sight my understanding was lifted up into heaven, and there God suggested to my mind David and others without number in the Old Law. In the New Law he brought to my mind first how Mary Magdalene, Peter, Paul, Thomas of India, Jude, Saint John of Beverley and others, also without number, are known in the Church on earth with their sins, and how these sins are no shame to them but have been transformed to their glory. By this honour, our courteous Lord shows for them here, in part, something similar to what is done for them in fullness there, for there the token of sin is transformed into glory.

Mother Julian of Norwich, Revelations of Divine Love.


:pray2:
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#4
Sin is necessary for salvation? Bah. Tell that to the Immaculate Conception, Mary full of grace.
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#5
The Good News of Heaven is necessary because of sin, and the man who hasn't sinned has no need of redemption.

It's a bit bewildering that we hear nothing of potential misadventures before the Fall, so there's no indication weather we'd have been brought to Heaven if once our bodies were destroyed,  or if death-by-misadventure were even possible --- "No one is told what would have happened", as C.S.Lewis is fond of reminding us.

On The Other Hand: given that sin is an evil, and that evil is a failure of Being, and that God's defining works are creations ex nihilo, sin does provide him ample canvas for more and greater works and wonders, eh?
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#6
I have heard it said that God permitted sin to happen because without sin in the world we would never know what it is like to need forgiveness, which teaches us humility and love of God; neither would we know what it is like to forgive others, which is necessary for us to become more like God and to appreciate His forgiveness of our trespasses.
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#7
Fulton Sheen has said that the present Cosmos is not the original plan, that we live now in a kind of second Creation, that we live now in the days of the Second Man.  Original man was originally just.  He sinned.  Thus we have what we now have.

No, sin was not necessary to attain Heaven.  But after sin, one must know the horror of sin as a rebellion against Love Itself to achieve true and lasting repentence.  Without such repentence there can be no acceptance of Divine Mercy, and without acceptance of Divine Mercy there can be no going to Heaven.
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#8
I always believed that sin was necessary for hell. :o
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#9
Matthew 2

31 Which of the two did the father's will? They say to him: The first. Jesus saith to them: Amen I say to you, that the publicans and the harlots shall go into the kingdom of God before you.

Luke 7

47 Wherefore I say to thee: Many sins are forgiven her, because she hath loved much. But to whom less is forgiven, he loveth less.
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#10
(08-11-2009, 03:38 PM)Psalm26 Wrote: Matthew 21

31 Which of the two did the father's will? They say to him: The first. Jesus saith to them: Amen I say to you, that the publicans and the harlots shall go into the kingdom of God before you.

Luke 7

47 Wherefore I say to thee: Many sins are forgiven her, because she hath loved much. But to whom less is forgiven, he loveth less.

Matthew 21:31 means that it is not enough to claim "I am a good Jew, Catholic, whatever', the will of the Father had to be done

Luke 7:47 means that Mary could be better than the pharisee, not that she is saved because she was a sinner

God does not want the sin, and since Jesus Christ is the Center and the reason of the world, His incarnation is not the consequence of the sin, only his shameful death, his death the consequence of the original sin, his shameful death on the cross is the consequence of personal sins. Neither was necessary for the incarnation.
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