Sin is necessary for Heaven

[JacafamalaRedux]

I understand the theology. It is touched upon in Jesus' parable of the lost sheep. "There shall be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents, than over ninety-nine righteous who need no repentance" (Luke 15:7). Even on earth we marvel when a great sinner repents and allows grace to transform him. The bigger the sinner, the greater the marvel. Look at Mary Magdalene. Better still is the person who allows suffering to transform him, especially if that suffering is brought about by his own past sins. I saw this happen when my sister died last year of cirrhosis of the liver.

But the title of the thread ("sin is necessary for heaven") is going to throw people. The baptized who have never sinned go to heaven. One of the loveliest meditations is that they possess in heaven a singular joy because they have never soiled their pure white robes.

- Lisa

That's right. Saint Therese said something similar in Story of a Soul: that she wished she could've been a great sinner in order to have known God's mercy better. I don't have the reference though. Can't find it. Perhaps it was in one of her other books.

St. Paul touches on this, too.

Romans 5:20 Now the law entered in, that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more abound.

But he puts things into a right perspective in the next chapter.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein?

[glgas]

I grown up with the advise: try to avoid all sins, but if you had fallen do not be desperate, God's grace is there for you too

And the strict doctrinal teaching was that God's grave would be necessery even without the original sin and the personals sins too.

Our created nature separates us from God, and we need God's help to elevate us, even w/o the consequences of sin

That's right. Saint Therese said something similar in Story of a Soul: that she wished she could've been a great sinner in order to have known God's mercy better. I don't have the reference though. Can't find it. Perhaps it was in one of her other books.

St. Paul touches on this, too.

Romans 5:20 Now the law entered in, that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more abound.

But he puts things into a right perspective in the next chapter.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein?

[JacafamalaRedux]

I grown up with the advise: try to avoid all sins, but if you had fallen do not be desperate, God's grace is there for you too

And the strict doctrinal teaching was that God's grave would be necessery even without the original sin and the personals sins too.

Our created nature separates us from God, and we need God's help to elevate us, even w/o the consequences of sin

That's right. Saint Therese said something similar in Story of a Soul: that she wished she could've been a great sinner in order to have known God's mercy better. I don't have the reference though. Can't find it. Perhaps it was in one of her other books.

St. Paul touches on this, too.

Romans 5:20 Now the law entered in, that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more abound.

But he puts things into a right perspective in the next chapter.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein?

Yes, that's right: we can do nothing without God. In fact, without God we'd cease to exist.

Much to their torment even the damned, are dependent on God for their existence.