Thoughts on Vatican II and a question for you
(07-23-2009, 08:17 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: I'm thinking out loud now (and will probably pay for it later lol):  Sometimes we don't know a good thing until it's gone. Could this deep love and appreciation for the Faith and tradition that you mention have happened without  persecution? Think about it.  

I certainly won't get upset.  :)  You're right.  Persecution can help us clarify our beliefs and priorities.

Quote:  That was due to the widespread and far reaching effects of Jansenism, which I mentioned earlier. It was condemned by the Church long ago, and Pope St. Pius X put the final nail in the coffin when he encouraged frequent Communion and lowered the age of First Communicants. The latter took place almost immediately, but the overall "I'm not worthy" mindset took a while longer to shake off. There are still some who believe that the practice of infrequent Communion is better than daily Communion. But the Popes of the last 100 years or so would not agree with that.

The other extreme is the "I AM worthy" attitude of certain politicians and Catholics who neither bother to practice their faith nor mind the state of their souls before approaching the Communion rail. Out of the two extremes, the latter is worse because it's sacrilege.  

Whether or not Jansenism was condemned, its effects lingered and I truly think that was one of the reasons for Vatican II.  Of course, there were probably better ways to fix things, but I also wonder how they would have been interpreted by the hippies out there.  Honest, I think they could twist almost anything if they were so inspired.  You should hear my mother (a major "free love" flower child).  I love her but she is so negative about the faith!  It's pretty hard to take sometimes.  One week she'll be going to church and happy and the next she's foaming at the mouth about some way that the local bishop is repressing her and asserting authority "he has no right to have."  When I tried to talk to her about chapel veils (I was wondering if she had kept any of hers), she went off.  It sometimes seems like she will never really come back to Catholicism.  (Sorry - personal rant.)

You're right.  The "I AM worthy" thing is wrong and frankly sickening.

Quote: I agree with you. I don't think Vatican II did what it was supposed to do. I'm not saying some good things didn't come out of it, but you and I will never be able to review the full damage or repairs in our lifetimes. I'm just wondering if there could have been sound alternatives to remedy certain attitudes prevalent in the Church before the Council. Of course, I understand some people believe we didn't need a cure.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that you should defend yourself for looking for alternatives.  That wasn't my goal.  I just know that a lot of people look back on how things were with rose colored glasses.  It's easy to think things were better and everything was perfect.  I just meant to say that every period has its challenges.

I've been reading a book you might find interesting in this vein - Greg Dues's <i>Catholic Customs and Traditions.</i>  It does defend Vatican II but also discusses the loss of traditions that once held the faith together and the importance of bringing them back.  It's rather interesting.

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Re: Thoughts on Vatican II and a question for you - by Fontevrault - 07-23-2009, 08:34 PM

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