Thoughts on Vatican II and a question for you
(07-23-2009, 10:47 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(07-23-2009, 10:29 PM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-23-2009, 10:23 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(07-23-2009, 10:05 PM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
Quote:Too many parents were lulled into trusting [previously trustworthy] Catholic authority and therefore took not only the faith, but also one of their primary duties as parents for granted, namely, the procreation and education of their children for granted.

Catholics are supposed to obey authority. If the pre-V2 authority was "trustworthy" then how can you say the laity could have been TOO trusting of Catholic authority.

The problem was SIN...people needed to amend their lives and stop offending God, especially in the public forum.

This ecclesiological crisis is a consequence of sin, and NOT due to too much"trust" in the Authority of the Church (that Christ founded and shed His precious Blood for).

One could say that the crisis was a consequence of the sin of presumption - that the fact God would be with His Church forever meant we didn't need to do much.

The proximate rule of Faith for a Catholic is THE PREACHING OF THE CHURCH (the LIVING ecclesiastical magisterium). That is not presumption.

Well that may be the "proximate rule of faith" (never heard of that one) but the primary duty of each and every individual human being has never changed, namely, to get to heaven. . . . . . ."Why did God make us? God made us to know love and serve Him in this world........"

It is ultimately up to us to "persevere unto the end", yet the "LIVING ecclesiastical magisterium" somehow broadcast that all we needed to do was be sincere in whatever belief we happened to be a part of so as to merit favor with God and eternal salvation.

Regardless of teachings or wordings, the above message got out loud and clear - and completely contradicts the faith as promulgated since the time of Our Lord here on earth................why did the masses choose to believe  and follow it? Well, that's the "wide road" that Our Lord said that most folks take.

"Van Noort, Christs Church, Dogmatic Theology" Wrote:Sequel

The rule of faith. It seems timely to add here a few remarks on the rule of faith. This term signifies the standard or norm according to which each individual Christian must determine what is the material object of his faith.

Protestants claim that the written Word of God, Holy Scripture, and that alone, is the one rule of faith. Catholics, on the other hand, even though they, too, admit that our faith must be regulated in the final analysis by the Word of God — including tradition as well as Scripture — hold that the proximate and immediate rule of faith — that rule to which each of the faithful and each generation of the faithful must look directly — is the preaching of the Church. And so, according to Catholics, there exists a twofold rule of faith: one remote and one proximate. The remote rule of faith is the Word of God (handed down in writing or orally), which was directly entrusted to the Church's rulers that from it they might teach and guide the faithful. The proximate rule of faith, from which the faithful, one and all, are bound to accept their faith and in accordance with which they are to regulate it, is the preaching of the ecclesiastical magisterium.(27) The following assertions concern the proximate rule of faith.

1. The Church's preaching was established by Christ Himself as the rule of faith. This can be proved from Matthew 28:19—20 and Mark 16:15—16; the command to teach all nations certainly implies a corresponding duty on the part of the nations to believe whatever the apostles and their successors teach, On the other hand, there is no notice anywhere of Christ's having commanded the apostles to give the people the doctrine of salvation in writing, and never did He command the faithful as a whole to seek their faith in the Bible.(28)

2. The Church's preaching is a rule of faith which is nicely accommodated to people's needs. For (a) it is an easy rule, one that can be observed by all alike, even the uneducated and unlettered. What could be easier than to give ear to a magisterium that is always at hand and always preaching? (b) It is a safe rule, for the Church's teaching office is infallible in safeguarding and presenting Christ's doctrine. © It is a living rule, in accordance with which it is possible in any age to explain the meaning of doctrines and to put an end to controversies.

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Re: Thoughts on Vatican II and a question for you - by lamentabili sane - 07-23-2009, 10:53 PM

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