Why was England so interested in conquering Ireland?
#51
in order to fully conquer a given people one must destroy their culture as well. note though that the Irish language was not superseded by english as the prima lingua of Ireland until after the great hunger
we will never forgive nor forget what the limmeys have done. i hope they understand when again we take the war to england they will be so castrated by multiculturlism and porn i doubt they will stand a chance
Tiocfaidh ar la!
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#52
(07-25-2009, 04:02 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: in order to fully conquer a given people one must destroy their culture as well. note though that the Irish language was not superseded by english as the prima lingua of Ireland until after the great hunger
we will never forgive nor forget what the limmeys have done. i hope they understand when again we take the war to england they will be so castrated by multiculturlism and porn i doubt they will stand a chance
Tiocfaidh ar la!

Why do you plan to "take the war to England" again?  Also, aren't the Irish succumbing to multiculturalism and the other evils of the modern world, too?  In Ulster, even Sinn Fein is sharing power with Ian-bloody-Paisley.  In any case, I hear that Muammar al-Gaddafi (how multicultural of the Provisional I.R.A. to seek the help of an African Mohammedan . . .) has exited the terrorism business, so renewed I.R.A. violence (if that's what you want) will need to find a patron elsewhere. 

Lack of forgiveness . . . now, in general would you say that vindictiveness over past wrongs committed against one's nation is more characteristic of a.) Catholicism or b.) Talmudic Judaism?  Pray for your enemies and bless those who curse you, etc.? 
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#53
(07-25-2009, 03:52 PM)Anastasia Wrote: It has always struck me as odd, though, the antipathy the Normans ( later the English) felt for Irish culture. The Statutes of Kilkenny (1200 or so, haven't checked the exact date in a while) forbid speaking Irish, dancing and music, every cultural feature they could think of. Now I'm not many of these laws completely succeeded, but why try so hard to erase their whole way of life? Why not be content with having conquered the place?

Anastasia,

From what I see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutes_of_Kilkenny), the Statutes of Kilkenny were not designed to stamp out the Irish language and Irish customs among the Irish.  Rather, they were designed to prevent the "Old English" settlers from "going native."  The goal wasn't to make the Irish language go extinct but to keep the English language and English national identity from going extinct among the *English* already in Ireland.  The Statutes show that national identity was a point of significant strife even then, so I have to modify some of my earlier statements.  The Hiberno-Norman rulers wanted to keep the English settlers under their control and keeping them separate from the Irish would help do this.  They were trying to engage in social engineering of sorts to prevent a natural coalescence.  And one of the Irish leaders protested to the Pope against the rule of the English Crown over England (which started with a papal bull) because of the English abuses. 
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#54
As for the Wolfe Tones, I find it funny that Wolfe Tone himself was a Protestant who belonged to the heretical "Church of Ireland."  Goes to show that Irish republicanism and the Irish independence movement are not necessarily identical with "political Catholicism" in Ireland.  Oh, would that the Stuarts still reigned as Catholic Kings of free and independent Kingdoms of England, Scotland, and Ireland (and, heck, maybe even France -- the absolutist Bourbons started out Huguenot and weren't all that great) in personal union!
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#55
sinn fein and the provos were and are traitors!!!! no doubt about that. but u need to be corrected though u might want to believe qaddafii was the main benefactor tot he IRA thats not the case. it was Irish Americans that supported the irish struggle far more and for far longer then qaddaffi.
the PROVOS though the most famous were and are not  the only armed group. the violence done to Ireland and the destruction of Irish culture is a direct result of english imperialism. the english shouldn't dare speak to the Irish with crocodile tears about violence. thats just lunacy.
why would we take the war to england again?
PUNISHMENT!
thats pretty well it and although it doesn't make for good politics im not a politician.
the brits need to be PUNISHED!
its that simple.
for me nannies sake for me mama and all the irish lassies who saw the brits shoot poor lads dead.
thats why.
and sure forgive but PUNISH just the same! its a deep deep hard struggle and no we wont stop. were just takin a  break right. for 800 years we've been fighting them but i promise u this. it wont go for another 800 thats for sure.
sip sip
TIOCFAIDH AR LA!!
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#56
also open your eyeys. wake up
while u mentioned past wrongs u forgot the present wrongs. the current occupational of the north.
WAKE UP!
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#57
(07-25-2009, 04:53 PM)Bonifacius Wrote:
(07-25-2009, 03:52 PM)Anastasia Wrote: It has always struck me as odd, though, the antipathy the Normans ( later the English) felt for Irish culture. The Statutes of Kilkenny (1200 or so, haven't checked the exact date in a while) forbid speaking Irish, dancing and music, every cultural feature they could think of. Now I'm not many of these laws completely succeeded, but why try so hard to erase their whole way of life? Why not be content with having conquered the place?

Anastasia,

From what I see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutes_of_Kilkenny), the Statutes of Kilkenny were not designed to stamp out the Irish language and Irish customs among the Irish.  Rather, they were designed to prevent the "Old English" settlers from "going native."  The goal wasn't to make the Irish language go extinct but to keep the English language and English national identity from going extinct among the *English* already in Ireland.  The Statutes show that national identity was a point of significant strife even then, so I have to modify some of my earlier statements.  The Hiberno-Norman rulers wanted to keep the English settlers under their control and keeping them separate from the Irish would help do this.  They were trying to engage in social engineering of sorts to prevent a natural coalescence.  And one of the Irish leaders protested to the Pope against the rule of the English Crown over England (which started with a papal bull) because of the English abuses. 
I'm sure it was a factor; on the other hand, that purpose could have been achieved by simply forbidding their own people speaking the Irish language, not making it illegal altogether. If you're interested, Edmund Curtis' History of Ireland has some interesting stuff about the Statutes and the change in the legal status of the Irish. Fascinating, really, the origin of the words villain (villein) and churl (ceorl).
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#58
how bout tory thats another one
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#59
(07-25-2009, 10:53 AM)Bonifacius Wrote:
(07-25-2009, 10:46 AM)didishroom Wrote: Hitler didn't even care about Poland; I believe he just wanted a port in Poland.

Are you familiar with the concept of Lebensraum?  Are you familiar with Hitler's routine?  He would make a reasonable demand and then manipulate the situation to get an unreasonable result.  If Hitler got Danzig and the Corridor, he then would have pressed forward to get the rest of Poland.  When he took the Sudetenland, he went on to establish a "protectorate" over Bohemia and Moravia and strong-armed the leaders of Slovakia.  He forcefully conquered Austria.  Etc., etc.  And what Hitler did to Poland once he conquered it shows well enough what his intentions were:  annexation and German colonization.  His henchmen even abducted "Aryan-looking" Polish children and sent them to Germany to be raised by Germans as Germans.  
Meanwhile your Bolshevik hero's were coming from the east annexing half of Poland decimating everything in it's path, ruthlessly raping and killing Polish nationals eventually seizing all of Poland and eastern Europe for the next half of century.


I'm sure the former U.S.S.R. can teach you a lot about "lebensraum".
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#60
Anastasia,

The Statute specifically says that forbids the *English* and the Irish *living amongst the English* from speaking Irish.  It does not require the Irish general populace to adopt English.  I quote the text (http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T300001-001/) and highlight the key words:

III. Also, it is ordained and established, that every Englishman do use the English language, and be named by an English name, leaving off entirely the manner of naming used by the Irish; and that every Englishman use the English custom, fashion, mode of riding and apparel, according to his estate; and if any English, or Irish living amongst the English, use the Irish language amongst themselves, contrary to the ordinance, and therof be attainted, his lands and tenements, if he have any, shall be seized into the hands of his immediate lord, until he shall come to one of the places of our lord the king, and find sufficient surety to adopt and use the English language, and then he shall have restitution of his said lands or tenements, his body shall be taken by any of the officers of our lord the king, and commited to the next gaol, there to remain until he, or some other in his name, shall find sufficient surety in the manner aforesaid: And that no Englishman who shall have the value of one hundred pounds of land or of rent by the year, shall ride otherwise than on a saddle in the English fashion; and he that shall do to the contrary, and shall be thereof attainted, his horse shall be forfeited to our lord the king, and his body shall be committed to prison, until he pay a fine according to the king's pleasure for the contempt aforesaid; and also, that beneficed persons of holy Church, living amongst the English, shall have the issues of their benefices until they use the English language in the manner aforesaid; and they shall have respite in order to learn the English language, and to provide saddles, between this and the feast of Saint Michael next coming.
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