Is it improper to pray for the conversion of someone who is Orthdox Catholic?
#11
How could it be improper? As the Council of Florence teaches, "all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives". Surely you want your friend to be saved!
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#12
(07-27-2009, 05:04 AM)nsper7 Wrote: They have done a much better job at keeping Protestant mush out of their doctrines

But some Orthodox Churches allow divorce and remarriage, and the use of contraceptives. This just goes to show how much everyone needs the Catholic Church.
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#13
They also deny the Filioque, Immaculate Conception, Purgatory and the authority and infallibility of the pope. Maybe Protestants are "worse" but they're "bad enough."
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#14
(07-27-2009, 05:04 AM)nsper7 Wrote: Remember that the Orthodox Church (and we are right to call it a "Church" since they have valid Sacraments and Apostolic Succession) is a might trickier issue than any of the Protestant "ecclesial communities". And in some ways, one has to wonder whether the Orthodox are much worse off than us Catholics. They have done a much better job at keeping Protestant mush out of their doctrines and they maintain much stronger doctrinal integrity (I understand everyone from the lowest layperson all the way up to high-level Bishop can get excommunicated on the spot if they even mention heretical doctrine as being legit; we Catholics seem to elevate lowly laypersons to the Bishopric when they discuss heretical doctrine as legit).

I think in some ways the Orthodox Churches (as well as Eastern Catholic Churches which were then part of them to a certain extent) are kind of weak, they have been pistoled whipped by emperors, tsars, muslims, and commies for over a thousand years and I think their outward attitude has been affected by this.  It seems that they are very insular especially in their historical areas with the exception of the Russian Orthodox.  To sum it up, for much of the History of the West and East, the Latin Church used kings to spread it across the lands, while in the East the kings used the Church to maintain (and sometimes expand) its domain.   
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#15
(08-09-2009, 07:08 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: I think in some ways the Orthodox Churches (as well as Eastern Catholic Churches which were then part of them to a certain extent) are kind of weak, they have been pistoled whipped by emperors, tsars, muslims, and commies for over a thousand years and I think their outward attitude has been affected by this.  It seems that they are very insular especially in their historical areas with the exception of the Russian Orthodox.  To sum it up, for much of the History of the West and East, the Latin Church used kings to spread it across the lands, while in the East the kings used the Church to maintain (and sometimes expand) its domain.     

There are many Eastern Catholics who would claim that they were never a part of the Eastern Schismatics (The Maronites for example). Many of them are insular. But if you are going to tell me that no American traditional parishes have the same problem I will have to attest to the contrary from personal witness.

And no, it is not wrong to pray for their conversion. It is right and just. As I explained to a Greek Orthodox priest I know when he told me if I were to try to convert him or a Protestant first, "The salvation of both of you is equally important. But yours, being clergy and thus a sacramental leader of your community, is more critical. And [the Protestant's], being in greater error and without any legitimate sacraments, is more urgent."
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#16
(08-09-2009, 08:54 PM)WanderingPenitent Wrote:
(08-09-2009, 07:08 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: I think in some ways the Orthodox Churches (as well as Eastern Catholic Churches which were then part of them to a certain extent) are kind of weak, they have been pistoled whipped by emperors, tsars, muslims, and commies for over a thousand years and I think their outward attitude has been affected by this.  It seems that they are very insular especially in their historical areas with the exception of the Russian Orthodox.  To sum it up, for much of the History of the West and East, the Latin Church used kings to spread it across the lands, while in the East the kings used the Church to maintain (and sometimes expand) its domain.     

There are many Eastern Catholics who would claim that they were never a part of the Eastern Schismatics (The Maronites for example). Many of them are insular. But if you are going to tell me that no American traditional parishes have the same problem I will have to attest to the contrary from personal witness.

And no, it is not wrong to pray for their conversion. It is right and just. As I explained to a Greek Orthodox priest I know when he told me if I were to try to convert him or a Protestant first, "The salvation of both of you is equally important. But yours, being clergy and thus a sacramental leader of your community, is more critical. And [the Protestant's], being in greater error and without any legitimate sacraments, is more urgent."

This is true among the traditional Catholics, my question is why are traditional fairly insular.  Like i am always trying to get friends to go with me to the EF, trying to teach them traditional things (granted they don't listen, but I must try, try, try). 

The second part is good, I would like to use it sometime, with permission.
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#17
(08-09-2009, 09:00 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: The second part is good, I would like to use it sometime, with permission.

Be my guest. You don't even have to attribute to me if you don't want to.
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#18
http://vizantia.info/docs/73.htm

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214.....viii.html

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#19
(07-25-2009, 10:41 PM)dakotamidnight Wrote: I have a very good friend from college who is a convert to the OCA catholic church. Prior to that he was protestant.

Is it improper to pray for his conversion to the Roman Catholic Church? I feel quite strongly that I should do so. He's probably praying for my conversion to the OCA FWIW.

Not at all. But be greatefull he has valid sacraments at least.
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#20
(07-25-2009, 11:14 PM)GodFirst Wrote:
Credo Wrote:It's a giant scandal for both the Latin and Orthodox leaders that this split has gone on for as long as it has.
Why is that? Those "Orthodox leaders" were in no way ever formally a part of the Church. They are Eastern Schismatics, not Eastern Catholics.

In the first millennium there was only one Church, although the Eastern and Western Church had different flavor.

It is very unfortunate that the unity was broken due to political reasons. Probably a serious persecution of the Christianity is needed to restore the unity.

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