How Would You Act as Pope?
#71
(07-28-2009, 05:28 PM)nsper7 Wrote: I would hold all religious orders/societies/etc. to the same standards I hold the SSPX:

1) They must be obedient to the Church and the Pope
2) They must be orthodox in their teaching and orthopraxic in their disciplines

I would certainly call "liberal" groups to account, but everyone must be measured up against the same stick. I cannot allow the SSPX to be disobedient even though they claim they are only doing so to promote "True Traditional Catholicism" and then only come down on liberal Catholic groups when they are disobedient or cause trouble. Every order within the Church, regardless of how they style themselves or see themselves, must obey the Church.

But you'll make all sorts of concessions to schismatics?
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#72
(07-28-2009, 05:42 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 05:28 PM)nsper7 Wrote: I would hold all religious orders/societies/etc. to the same standards I hold the SSPX:

1) They must be obedient to the Church and the Pope
2) They must be orthodox in their teaching and orthopraxic in their disciplines

I would certainly call "liberal" groups to account, but everyone must be measured up against the same stick. I cannot allow the SSPX to be disobedient even though they claim they are only doing so to promote "True Traditional Catholicism" and then only come down on liberal Catholic groups when they are disobedient or cause trouble. Every order within the Church, regardless of how they style themselves or see themselves, must obey the Church.

But you'll make all sorts of concessions to schismatics?

But I would expect the Eastern Orthodox and the Anglo-Catholics to be obedient as well, although I would grant them autonomy and promise not to be to overbearing.
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#73
(07-28-2009, 05:50 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 05:42 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 05:28 PM)nsper7 Wrote: I would hold all religious orders/societies/etc. to the same standards I hold the SSPX:

1) They must be obedient to the Church and the Pope
2) They must be orthodox in their teaching and orthopraxic in their disciplines

I would certainly call "liberal" groups to account, but everyone must be measured up against the same stick. I cannot allow the SSPX to be disobedient even though they claim they are only doing so to promote "True Traditional Catholicism" and then only come down on liberal Catholic groups when they are disobedient or cause trouble. Every order within the Church, regardless of how they style themselves or see themselves, must obey the Church.

But you'll make all sorts of concessions to schismatics?

But I would expect the Eastern Orthodox and the Anglo-Catholics to be obedient as well, although I would grant them autonomy and promise not to be to overbearing.

Why?  Why should they get special treatment? 

It just seems like you'll pitter-pat with open schismatics, but will denounce Catholics. 

(Note:  I'm no SSPXer, but the contradictions here are disappointing).
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#74
As an aside... mention of the papal tiara got me searching for pictures (some example are very beautiful) and I came across this example of atrocious taste and prideful presumption. It was worn by Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent, "who commissioned Venetian craftsmen to make a 4-tiered tiara modeled on the Papal design, to demonstrate that his power and authority exceeded that of the Supreme Pontiff." Some people...
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#75
(07-28-2009, 05:52 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 05:50 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 05:42 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 05:28 PM)nsper7 Wrote: I would hold all religious orders/societies/etc. to the same standards I hold the SSPX:

1) They must be obedient to the Church and the Pope
2) They must be orthodox in their teaching and orthopraxic in their disciplines

I would certainly call "liberal" groups to account, but everyone must be measured up against the same stick. I cannot allow the SSPX to be disobedient even though they claim they are only doing so to promote "True Traditional Catholicism" and then only come down on liberal Catholic groups when they are disobedient or cause trouble. Every order within the Church, regardless of how they style themselves or see themselves, must obey the Church.

But you'll make all sorts of concessions to schismatics?

But I would expect the Eastern Orthodox and the Anglo-Catholics to be obedient as well, although I would grant them autonomy and promise not to be to overbearing.

Why?  Why should they get special treatment? 

It just seems like you'll pitter-pat with open schismatics, but will denounce Catholics. 

(Note:  I'm no SSPXer, but the contradictions here are disappointing).

Because I want the Eastern Orthodox and Anglo-Catholic to re-enter full communion with Rome and I am willing to work with them to show them that they will not be wrongly treated. The SSPX is supposedly a Catholic organization, but is disobedient.
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#76
(07-28-2009, 05:59 PM)nsper7 Wrote: Because I want the Eastern Orthodox and Anglo-Catholic to re-enter full communion with Rome and I am willing to work with them to show them that they will not be wrongly treated. The SSPX is supposedly a Catholic organization, but is disobedient.

You'll excommunicate Catholics who follow all dogma and restrict other Catholics in what rite they can attend, but pander to the heretics and schismatics?
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#77
He's just a kid.  He doesn't know what he's saying.
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#78
(07-28-2009, 06:24 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(07-28-2009, 05:59 PM)nsper7 Wrote: Because I want the Eastern Orthodox and Anglo-Catholic to re-enter full communion with Rome and I am willing to work with them to show them that they will not be wrongly treated. The SSPX is supposedly a Catholic organization, but is disobedient.

You'll excommunicate Catholics who follow all dogma and restrict other Catholics in what rite they can attend, but pander to the heretics and schismatics?

No, I would not excommunicate anyone unless they did something to deserve it. Since the SSPX is disobedient to the Pope and the Church, then they are NOT obeying all dogma and doctrine. And I would only excommunicate SSPX leaders if they persisted in their disobedience and their refusal to reconcile.

And how am I limiting people in terms of Rites? As I said, I would elevate the TLM to the Ordinary Form (along with the Mass of Pope Paul VI; basically, two OFs: NO and TLM) and would promote clergy being able to celebrate both the NO and the TLM and I would promote a more widespread use of the TLM in parishes. Also, I would promote use of the Anglican Use Rite. How am I limiting Rites here? There would be a lot more TLM usage under my tutelage.
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#79
(07-28-2009, 07:11 PM)nsper7 Wrote: No, I would not excommunicate anyone unless they did something to deserve it. Since the SSPX is disobedient to the Pope and the Church, then they are NOT obeying all dogma and doctrine. And I would only excommunicate SSPX leaders if they persisted in their disobedience and their refusal to reconcile.
...exactly what does that mean? What do you think the SSPX has to do?

Quote:And how am I limiting people in terms of Rites? As I said, I would elevate the TLM to the Ordinary Form (along with the Mass of Pope Paul VI; basically, two OFs: NO and TLM) and would promote clergy being able to celebrate both the NO and the TLM and I would promote a more widespread use of the TLM in parishes. Also, I would promote use of the Anglican Use Rite. How am I limiting Rites here? There would be a lot more TLM usage under my tutelage.
You are forbidding the rite from being used in many countries based solely on geography.
EDIT: No you aren't, that was another.
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#80
(07-28-2009, 07:31 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
Quote:And how am I limiting people in terms of Rites? As I said, I would elevate the TLM to the Ordinary Form (along with the Mass of Pope Paul VI; basically, two OFs: NO and TLM) and would promote clergy being able to celebrate both the NO and the TLM and I would promote a more widespread use of the TLM in parishes. Also, I would promote use of the Anglican Use Rite. How am I limiting Rites here? There would be a lot more TLM usage under my tutelage.
You are forbidding the rite from being used in many countries based solely on geography.

That's the other guy - NonSumDignus.
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