Fellay: talks in autumn.
#11
(08-01-2009, 01:20 PM)didishroom Wrote: So she failed then?
Nope!  To diminish is not to fail.  She simply holds less sway over the world than She once did.  "Though Catholics faithful to Tradition be reduced to a handful, they are the true Church of Jesus Christ."  I'm paraphrasing, but I'm with St. Athanasius.
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#12
(08-01-2009, 01:18 PM)Gondalus Wrote: Well, I may draw the ire of everyone here, but I say this is madness.  The Vatican is corrupted with Modernism to its very core.  The pope is a Modernist.  He believes in the relativity of dogma.  He believes that many of the false religions are praiseworthy(Islam, Judaism, Protestantism).  He is more concerned with saving the environment than he is with saving souls.  If you compromise with him, as Bp. Fellay wishes to, he will assimilate you.  The SSPX will(if it hasn't already) become another color on the Novus Ordo Church's inclusive banner.  Autumn will bring this sad vision one step closer to fruition.  These "talks" will come at the cost of good Catholic souls. 

This is what I have come to believe: the Church has, in terms of visible splendor, become a shadow of Her former Self, and She cannot be found in Rome anymore. 

If the pope is a modernist, he has ceased to be pope and instead is a heretic.  Please expand your explanation of this fascinating theory as I have never heard of it before now. 
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#13
(08-01-2009, 01:18 PM)Gondalus Wrote: Well, I may draw the ire of everyone here, but I say this is madness.  The Vatican is corrupted with Modernism to its very core.  The pope is a Modernist.  He believes in the relativity of dogma.  He believes that many of the false religions are praiseworthy(Islam, Judaism, Protestantism).  He is more concerned with saving the environment than he is with saving souls.  If you compromise with him, as Bp. Fellay wishes to, he will assimilate you.  The SSPX will(if it hasn't already) become another color on the Novus Ordo Church's inclusive banner.  Autumn will bring this sad vision one step closer to fruition.  These "talks" will come at the cost of good Catholic souls. 

This is what I have come to believe: the Church has, in terms of visible splendor, become a shadow of Her former Self, and She cannot be found in Rome anymore. 

So, I'm no SSPX-fanatic... but...
You know more than Bp. Fellay?

Seriously?  I mean, cmon.  Seriously? 
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#14
(08-01-2009, 02:25 PM)DrBombay Wrote: If the pope is a Modernist, he has ceased to be pope and instead is a heretic.  Please expand your explanation of this fascinating theory as I have never heard of it before now. 

That is because you have an erroneous notion of ecclesiology. Heresy does not mean that a Pope ceases being Pope. A Pope can only loose his office through death or resignation.

It is entirely possible for a Pope loose his faith and become an unbeliever. The Church could have a Pope who is an Atheist. We have had heretical popes in the past, like Liberius and Honorius.
The Church can never defect, but individuals can.
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#15
(08-01-2009, 03:02 PM)SaintRafael Wrote:
(08-01-2009, 02:25 PM)DrBombay Wrote: If the pope is a Modernist, he has ceased to be pope and instead is a heretic.  Please expand your explanation of this fascinating theory as I have never heard of it before now. 

That is because you have an erroneous notion of ecclesiology. Heresy does not mean that a Pope ceases being Pope. A Pope can only loose his office through death or resignation.

It is entirely possible for a Pope loose his faith and become an unbeliever. The Church could have a Pope who is an Atheist. We have had heretical popes in the past, like Liberius and Honorius.
The Church can never defect, but individuals can.

Sorry friend, but your notion of ecclesiology is faulty to an extreme. A heretic is outside the True Church.  Therefore, a man currently occupying the See of Rome, the moment he espouses heresy, ceases to be pope.  It's quite simple really.  I would encourage further study on your part as to what exactly constitutes heresy, otherwise you spread scandal with your ill-informed opinions.
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#16
(08-01-2009, 03:18 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Sorry friend, but your notion of ecclesiology is faulty to an extreme. A heretic is outside the True Church.  Therefore, a man currently occupying the See of Rome, the moment he espouses heresy, ceases to be pope.  It's quite simple really.  I would encourage further study on your part as to what exactly constitutes heresy, otherwise you spread scandal with your ill-informed opinions.

It is that type of thinking that has led to the rise of Sedevacantism, which you will be doomed to agree with and join if you are intellectually honest and follow the conclusions of your thinking. It is completely contradicted by Church history, in which these things have happened during other apostasies. Heresy does separate someone from the true Church for their salvation, but as long as they physically hold an office, they are still in that office until they are replaced and removed.
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#17
(08-01-2009, 03:31 PM)SaintRafael Wrote:
(08-01-2009, 03:18 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Sorry friend, but your notion of ecclesiology is faulty to an extreme. A heretic is outside the True Church.  Therefore, a man currently occupying the See of Rome, the moment he espouses heresy, ceases to be pope.  It's quite simple really.  I would encourage further study on your part as to what exactly constitutes heresy, otherwise you spread scandal with your ill-informed opinions.

That type of thinking that has led to the rise of Sedevacantism, which you will be doomed to agree with and join if you are intellectually honest and follow the conclusions of your thinking. It is completely contradicted by Church history, in which these things have happened during other apostasies. Heresy does separate someone from the true Church for their salvation, but as long as they physically hold an office, they are still in that office until they are replaced and removed.

That's true.  For example, Archbishop Zollitsch spoke heresy but still legally retains his position, and will do so unless the Pope removes him after a canonical trial. 
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#18
This article is encouraging. I am glad to see that Fellay is unwilling to compromise on the VII but is willing to work things out with the Holy Father. Very very good! Hopefully something will some of the discussions this fall.  :pray:
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#19
(08-01-2009, 03:18 PM)DrBombay Wrote:
(08-01-2009, 03:02 PM)SaintRafael Wrote:
(08-01-2009, 02:25 PM)DrBombay Wrote: If the pope is a Modernist, he has ceased to be pope and instead is a heretic.  Please expand your explanation of this fascinating theory as I have never heard of it before now. 

That is because you have an erroneous notion of ecclesiology. Heresy does not mean that a Pope ceases being Pope. A Pope can only loose his office through death or resignation.

It is entirely possible for a Pope loose his faith and become an unbeliever. The Church could have a Pope who is an Atheist. We have had heretical popes in the past, like Liberius and Honorius.
The Church can never defect, but individuals can.

Sorry friend, but your notion of ecclesiology is faulty to an extreme. A heretic is outside the True Church.  Therefore, a man currently occupying the See of Rome, the moment he espouses heresy, ceases to be pope.  It's quite simple really.  I would encourage further study on your part as to what exactly constitutes heresy, otherwise you spread scandal with your ill-informed opinions.

As long as a man is the Bishop of Rome, he is also the Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church.

The Bishop of Rome would not cease to be the Bishop of the Roman Diocese if he adhered to heresy any more than the Archbishop of Los Angeles would cease to be achbishop of that archdiocese if he were to become a heretic.
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#20
(08-01-2009, 04:56 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: The Bishop of Rome would not cease to be the Bishop of the Roman Diocese if he adhered to heresy any more than the Archbishop of Los Angeles would cease to be achbishop of that archdiocese if he were to become a heretic.

Were to become?  ;D

I think the Archdiocese of Los Angeles has suffered long enough because the said event has occurred.
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