Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS?
#64
Quote:Water baptism is a necessary sign of election, but not definitive.  However, we do not know for certain if someone did NOT receive water baptism.  And I am open to there being other ways, though I have no great hope in it, and these "other ways" have never been revealed to us.  At the same time, you have to be open to the fact that there is no "other way", and every professed Moslem, Jew, Pagan, or whatever won't be saved.  We can't judge God.

The magisterial statements are unequivocal in teaching that it is possible not to receive actual water baptism and be saved, which Tradition backs up with numerous examples.  The "other ways," namely a direct infusion of Sanctifying Grace from God has been revealed and is a part of the deposit of Faith.  It was not pulled out of the blue by the Church Fathers and it doesn't make sense to say for a fact there is no other way but hoping there is.  There is or there isn't.

And you can't state for a fact that every professed Moslem, Jew, pagan or whatever is in the state of mortal sin.  They may be united to the Catholic Church in a hidden way, but will never know with certainty until they become formal members with water Baptism.  But even a formal member can't know with absolute certainty whether they are in the state of grace or not.    


Quote:How much "punishment" someone with Original Sin only receives is debatable.  Some believe that Limbo, the upper level of hell, is actually a pleasant place.   However, it is not unjust for God to send those with Original Sin to hell.  You are judging God.

You have to make the distinction between Original Sin and actual sin.  Those with Original Sin only are not punished with damnation, they are merely excluded from Heaven.  The Magisterium teaches that one cannot be punished eternally except for committing a voluntary sin, and Original Sin (except for our first parent's) is not voluntary.  


Quote:This in a microcosm shows the problems before Vatican II.  If you deny EENS, then before long you deny Original Sin, and/or judge God for not saving the reprobate.  Eventually you end up calling abortion a sacrament that saves the unbaptized babies who were slaughtered.

True, but that can work the other way too.  If one has the Feeneyite understanding of EENS, you fall into a kind of Jansenism and Calvinism which is also erroneous.  We shouldn't combat one error with another.  
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Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - by PeterII - 08-05-2009, 05:24 PM



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