Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS?
(08-08-2009, 07:48 PM)James02 Wrote:
Quote: So here we have Augustine showing through revelation that one can be saved without water Baptism, while not precluding the moral obligation that everyone has to do it, including Cornelius, as a precept.
  Augustine was commenting before the Church settled the matter.  Furthermore I disagree with him on this point because the Good Thief clearly went to Limbo, the Paradise of the Fathers. 

But in any case, Augustine is commenting on EXPLICIT baptism of desire.  He says it only applies when baptism is physically prevented, and uses the case of Cornelius to show that Baptism is still required if it is NOT physically prevented.  Read it again.

Where did the Church settle the matter? 

Why would Jesus say, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he can not enter into the Kingdom of God" before the Passion, and not insist on water baptism for everybody from that point forward?  Of course the good thief needed grace and faith to be saved and make it to the Father's Limbo before Heaven was opened, but he did not receive it by water Baptism. 

Augustine is not excluding the implicit desire for Baptism in his statement, and he forms the basis of it with his "faith and conversion of heart" statement.

Quote:He was talking about the good thief.  Cornelius was baptised, because he did what the angel told him he MUST do.

That statement does not preclude salvation if one is stopped beyond one's control. 

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Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - by PeterII - 08-08-2009, 10:56 PM

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