Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS?
Let's try this again.  Here's the original quote:

Quote: Actually, it says that he was sanctified. He was justified. He had the supernatural virtues of Faith and Charity before sacramental Baptism.

Book 4, Chpt. 24 says none of these things.  Furthermore, it doesn't say such a thing in the rest of the chapters and books.  L.S. is playing "word games".  At this point L.S. needs to retract his untruthful statement.

Oh, and as far as Augustine equating salvation of Abraham with the sanctification of Cornelius, I demonstrated that that was completely wrong by quoting Augustine himself.  Here's some more for you to consider:
Quote: And this is the firm tradition of the universal Church, in respect of the baptism of infants, who certainly are as yet unable "with the heart to believe unto righteousness, and with the mouth to make confession unto salvation," as the thief could do; nay, who even, by crying and moaning when the mystery is performed upon them, raise their voices in opposition to the mysterious words, and yet no Christian will say that they are baptized to no purpose.
Chapter 24.

32. And if any one seek for divine authority in this matter, though what is held by the whole Church, and that not as instituted by Councils, but as a matter of invariable custom, is rightly held to have been handed down by authority, still we can form a true conjecture of the value of the sacrament of baptism in the case of infants, from the parallel of circumcision, which was received by God's earlier people, and before receiving which Abraham was justified, as Cornelius also was enriched with the gift of the Holy Spirit before he was baptized. Yet the apostle says of Abraham himself, that "he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith," having already believed in his heart, so that "it was counted unto him for righteousness." Why, therefore, was it commanded him that he should circumcise every male child in order on the eighth day, Genesis 17:9-14 though it could not yet believe with the heart, that it should be counted unto it for righteousness, because the sacrament in itself was of great avail? And this was made manifest by the message of an angel in the case of Moses' son; for when he was carried by his mother, being yet uncircumcised, it was required, by manifest present peril, that he should be circumcised, Exodus 4:24-26 and when this was done, the danger of death was removed.
Note that Augustine yet again avoids saying Cornelius was "justified".  And this fits in with the other quotes I supplied from Augustine.  He is careful to make a distinction.

Furthermore, your quote from Pope Innocent is a non-sequitur as he certainly does not mention Cornelius.

Simple, withdraw the erroneous statement.
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Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - by James02 - 09-02-2009, 02:43 PM



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