An Outlook on the upcoming Doctrinal Talks between SSPX and the Vatican
(08-03-2009, 05:29 AM)James02 Wrote: THAT is the point I was trying to get at.  Vat. II was NOT infallible, and it was NOT binding.  The Council declared that it was ONLY pastoral, and not binding on the Church.  Pope Paul declared that the Council was fallible.  The Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith declared that Vat. II was fallible.

By the way, a PASTORAL Council is entirely new to the Church.

Since these are established facts, then the Pope has great leeway in these talks.  He can even declare the documents so ambiguous, that they are put on the Index of Forbidden Books.  That is possible (though highly improbable).

The infallible is something extraordinary and very rare. However the Church had to be governed in ordinary way, so even fallible rules are binding, and the conscientious disobedience is sin, in grave matter mortal sin.

The typical example is the investiture issue.  Just before Vatican II the common opinion was that after the council of Trident the only infallible dogmas were the Immaculate Conception, the Papal infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra related to the faith and moral in accordance with the college of bishops, and the Assumption/Coronation of the Blessed Virgin. Three over 400 years.

In the high Medieval eves the Frech and Hungarian Kings practically exercised the nomination of the bishops requiring obedience to the King, however when the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire tried it, Germany was put under interdict for the disobedience in a purely legal issue. The Church is theocracy, and the Pope and the college of Bishops are the rulers, whom shall be obeyed, regardless of they are infallible in a particular question or not.

The SSPX was right keeping the Tradition of the Holy Mass alive, but this does not justifies the disobedienve of the 1917 Canon Law. The exitence of the FSSP proves, that the goal could be achieved with odedience.


As a matter of fact the is no Index any more

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Re: An Outlook on the upcoming Doctrinal Talks between SSPX and the Vatican - by glgas - 08-03-2009, 07:45 AM

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