Recommendations for Prots with a Reformed Interested
#1
Books, articles, etc.

I am ignorant, but am trying to help a friend out!!

Bless you all.
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#2
I have debated with the reformed prots before.  Here are some guidelines:

1.  Most reformed prots (and most Catholics) don't realize that the Catholic Church preaches predestination.  So you have a lot of common ground with one BIG exception.

2.  Start with the Council of Orange. (Google "Council of Orange")  Let you prot friend read these canons.  He will agree with most of them.  Ask him if he knew about this belief of Catholics.  If not, then he was lied to.  What other lies were told?

3.  The BIG difference is free will.  We believe that ALL who are saved were predestined to election.  However, ALL who are damned, ended up that way by free will.  I think this is a big selling point.  A reformed prot has to believe that the reprobate go to hell because that is the way God planned it.  They deny free will.

4.  Go over Bible quotes for free will.  Examples:  Epistle of James:  Don't say God tempted you, Ezechial "I do not Will the reprobate to sin.  If they will turn I will forgive them.", and when Jesus says, Jerusalem, if you would repent, I would save you like a hen gathers her chicks, etc...

5.  Introduce "Molinism".  See Molinism in wikipedia.  Here is a system that is free will and predestination.  I think it will be really comforting to a reformed prot to read this as they must conclude that God is Moloch according to their heresy.

So I think the Catholic Church is truly "Good News" to them.  The biblical proof of predestination is solid.  However, so is it for free will.  So by accepting the Catholic Church's teaching, your prot friend can continue to believe what the Bible clearly teaches -- predestination, without making God into Moloch.
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#3
(08-12-2009, 09:56 PM)James02 Wrote: 5.  Introduce "Molinism".  See Molinism in wikipedia.  Here is a system that is free will and predestination.  I think it will be really comforting to a reformed prot to read this as they must conclude that God is Moloch according to their heresy.

I dislike Molinism and its populartiy in Jesuit circles because too often it is interpreted to be nearly along the lines of Open Theism and tends to be the harsh, unnecessary counterpoint to Jansenism. Unlike Jansenism, Molinism is not condemned as a heresy but I play caution around it. My understanding of Predestination and Free Will, even before I was Catholic, has always been more along the lines of Thomism, which is obviously more popular among Dominican and certain Traditional circles.
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#4

I highly recommend the book "How can I get to Heaven?"

It's got great coverage of faith vs. works.  I have the abridged version but have been planning to buy the longer text.  That, plus a simple book with a doofy guy on it that's called "College Apologetics".

Those swayed me from being an unbaptized Lutheran to a Catholic, especially the first.

That, and the simple fact that the only Church around for 1500+ years WAS the Catholic Church.  I mean, could anyone honestly say that they were doing it wrong for all that time, keeping the Bible intact, just so Prots could come about with the reformation? 

Or, are you talking about people who already have converted?

Calicatholic
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#5
(08-13-2009, 12:54 AM)WanderingPenitent Wrote:
(08-12-2009, 09:56 PM)James02 Wrote: 5.  Introduce "Molinism".  See Molinism in wikipedia.  Here is a system that is free will and predestination.  I think it will be really comforting to a reformed prot to read this as they must conclude that God is Moloch according to their heresy.

I dislike Molinism and its populartiy in Jesuit circles because too often it is interpreted to be nearly along the lines of Open Theism and tends to be the harsh, unnecessary counterpoint to Jansenism. Unlike Jansenism, Molinism is not condemned as a heresy but I play caution around it. My understanding of Predestination and Free Will, even before I was Catholic, has always been more along the lines of Thomism, which is obviously more popular among Dominican and certain Traditional circles.

I'm a Thomist on the issue myself, but St. Francis de Sales was a Molinist, so it's not entirely bad company.
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#6
These may be of interest:
A Tiptoe Through TULIP: http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/tulip.htm
The Scott Hahn Conversion Story: http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...p0088.html
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#7
I am not a Molinist, since it more or less considers "time".  God is outside of Time, so I am more of a Thomist.  The Molinist says that God "considered" every counter-factual, and then "chose" His one sovereign plan, in which plan Man is free to choose.

"Considered" and "chose" are in the past, and yet Jesus said "Before Abraham, I AM." 

However:
1.  A Catholic is allowed to be a Molinist.

2.  The Molinist argument is relatively simple and easily explained.  It is very useful in talking to a Reformed Baptist.  He can throw every Bible quote on predestination at you, and it fits in the Molinist system.  You can then throw at him the Free Will quotes from the Bible, and he can't answer them. However the free will quotes fit in with the Molinist model.

So the advantage is you can quickly and easily show a reformed prot that the Catholic understanding of Free Will AND Predestination can work.  Since Reformed Protestants have a problem maintaining Sola Scriptura, and Predestination, I find this approach effective and "Good News" to the reformed prot.
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#8
I understand the Molinism is not heresy, but too often many Catholics interpret it how they wish and then treat it like Open Theism. It is not Open Theism, but to the untrained theologian it seems like it. This is why I think it should not be promoted, even if it is not necessarily in error.

Thomism might be more difficult to comprehend, but I am of the impression that this works in its favor. Most orthodox doctrines in the past were must less comprehendible, although more logical, than their hereitcal counterparts.
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