Jacques Maritain
#11
(01-16-2010, 12:01 AM)anthony Wrote: 10 bucks says none of you have read Maritain, or Rahner (not that I would recommend it without having taken Tylenol beforehand).

Maritain's Man and the State is on my reading list! I found it for 25¢ on the sale rack of the local library. 

I won't say much about Karl Rahner, only that I have always been in complete and fervent agreement with his thesis of the Anonymous Christian (if that makes me less a trad, then so be it)
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#12
(01-16-2010, 12:01 AM)anthony Wrote: 10 bucks says none of you have read Maritain, or Rahner (not that I would recommend it without having taken Tylenol beforehand).

I've never read them. I haven't read any theologians except for Dietrich von Hildebrand. I started Transformation in Christ years ago and quickly got bored.
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#13
(01-16-2010, 12:01 AM)anthony Wrote: 10 bucks says none of you have read Maritain, or Rahner (not that I would recommend it without having taken Tylenol beforehand).

  I'll look forward to the 10bucks arriving in my "in box" any day now although I only read one book of each about 35 years ago...they both gave me the creeps so I was never tempted to follow up with more.
  Well Marc, the Maritain book I had must have been better than yours because it cost me $2.
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#14
(01-16-2010, 01:42 AM)Marc Wrote:
(01-16-2010, 12:01 AM)anthony Wrote: 10 bucks says none of you have read Maritain, or Rahner (not that I would recommend it without having taken Tylenol beforehand).

Maritain's Man and the State is on my reading list! I found it for 25¢ on the sale rack of the local library. 

I won't say much about Karl Rahner, only that I have always been in complete and fervent agreement with his thesis of the Anonymous Christian (if that makes me less a trad, then so be it)
His writings on grace aren't what are problematic, as far as I can tell. Rahner's theology of grace resonates with me. However, many of his "disciples" have pushed an interpretation of his work that is heterodox. Be careful. I can't blame them though, for Rahner can be quoted in soundbites in order to justify the absurd.

(01-16-2010, 07:45 AM)stvincentferrer Wrote:
(01-16-2010, 12:01 AM)anthony Wrote: 10 bucks says none of you have read Maritain, or Rahner (not that I would recommend it without having taken Tylenol beforehand).

I've never read them. I haven't read any theologians except for Dietrich von Hildebrand. I started Transformation in Christ years ago and quickly got bored.
Most trads will back me up in saying that Von Hildebrand is awesome.

Just read it. Its great. I read it on retreat.
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#15
(01-16-2010, 07:45 AM)stvincentferrer Wrote:
(01-16-2010, 12:01 AM)anthony Wrote: I've never read them. I haven't read any theologians except for Dietrich von Hildebrand. I started Transformation in Christ years ago and quickly got bored.
Most trads will back me up in saying that Von Hildebrand is awesome.

Just read it. Its great. I read it on retreat.

It might be that theology is just not my "thing." In all my time as a member here I've visited the theological debate subforum only a handful of times.
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#16
(01-26-2010, 05:04 PM)stvincentferrer Wrote:
(01-16-2010, 07:45 AM)stvincentferrer Wrote:
(01-16-2010, 12:01 AM)anthony Wrote: I've never read them. I haven't read any theologians except for Dietrich von Hildebrand. I started Transformation in Christ years ago and quickly got bored.
Most trads will back me up in saying that Von Hildebrand is awesome.

Just read it. Its great. I read it on retreat.

It might be that theology is just not my "thing." In all my time as a member here I've visited the theological debate subforum only a handful of times.
That's okay then.

The book isn't that dense though...Its not dogmatics or systematic theology. Von Hildebrand is thorough, and as a moral philosopher (primarily) his writings exibit the same characteristic: repetition. But not a la JPII. Just right.
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#17
The book isn't that dense though...Its not dogmatics or systematic theology. Von Hildebrand is thorough, and as a moral philosopher (primarily) his writings exibit the same characteristic: repetition. But not a la JPII. Just right.
[/quote]

Of course it's not "dense".
Montini had some very interesting friends, one of which one was Saul Alinsky... one of the co-founders of psycodrama whichwas a way of altering one's "outlook" by bypassing the intellectual part of the brain/psyche.
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#18
Be very careful with Von Hildebrand - Pope Pius XII's endorsement was for some of his early works - not some of his later works which contain comments that verge on heresy and were built on by modernists.  Here is one quote:

"The very meaning and value which marriage possesses of its own cannot be understood if we fail to start from the great and prominent reality of the love between man and woman. And here, let us be frank, we touch on a kind of scandal in Catholic writings on marriage. In them one hears much of the will of the flesh, the remedy for concupiscence, mutual help and assistance, procreation; but one hears very little of love. We mean the love between man and woman, the deepest source of happiness in human life, the great glorious love of which the Song of Solomon says: “If a man would give all the substance of his house for love, he would despise it as nothing.”

I thought God was the deepest source of happiness in human life. 

It is because of the endorsement of Pius XII that seems to blind many to the problems of Von Hildebrand.  Frankly, you would be better to stick to the writings of TRULY orthodox writers like Garigou-Lagrange.  At least he won't put you wrong or confuse you.

And for those here who would recommend that people read the likes of Maritain with the excuse that while they may spew heresies, there are some good things in their writings - would you eat porridge with poison mixed in?  If not, why would you poison your soul in the same way?

All Catholics should avoid all works by the modernists and stick exclusively to works we know are safe and follow logic - it is that which will beat the modernists, not an "understanding" of their lies.
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#19
(01-28-2010, 12:45 PM)JamieF Wrote: Be very careful with Von Hildebrand - Pope Pius XII's endorsement was for some of his early works - not some of his later works which contain comments that verge on heresy and were built on by modernists.  Here is one quote:

"The very meaning and value which marriage possesses of its own cannot be understood if we fail to start from the great and prominent reality of the love between man and woman. And here, let us be frank, we touch on a kind of scandal in Catholic writings on marriage. In them one hears much of the will of the flesh, the remedy for concupiscence, mutual help and assistance, procreation; but one hears very little of love. We mean the love between man and woman, the deepest source of happiness in human life, the great glorious love of which the Song of Solomon says: “If a man would give all the substance of his house for love, he would despise it as nothing.”

I thought God was the deepest source of happiness in human life. 

It is because of the endorsement of Pius XII that seems to blind many to the problems of Von Hildebrand.  Frankly, you would be better to stick to the writings of TRULY orthodox writers like Garigou-Lagrange.  At least he won't put you wrong or confuse you.

And for those here who would recommend that people read the likes of Maritain with the excuse that while they may spew heresies, there are some good things in their writings - would you eat porridge with poison mixed in?  If not, why would you poison your soul in the same way?

All Catholics should avoid all works by the modernists and stick exclusively to works we know are safe and follow logic - it is that which will beat the modernists, not an "understanding" of their lies.

It always confuddles me how people like martain and von balthasar are so widely praised, adored even, among the neo crowd and solid theologians like Lagrange and the like are ignored. Goes to show eh.
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#20
(01-28-2010, 12:45 PM)JamieF Wrote: Be very careful with Von Hildebrand - Pope Pius XII's endorsement was for some of his early works - not some of his later works which contain comments that verge on heresy and were built on by modernists.  Here is one quote:

"The very meaning and value which marriage possesses of its own cannot be understood if we fail to start from the great and prominent reality of the love between man and woman. And here, let us be frank, we touch on a kind of scandal in Catholic writings on marriage. In them one hears much of the will of the flesh, the remedy for concupiscence, mutual help and assistance, procreation; but one hears very little of love. We mean the love between man and woman, the deepest source of happiness in human life, the great glorious love of which the Song of Solomon says: “If a man would give all the substance of his house for love, he would despise it as nothing.”

I thought God was the deepest source of happiness in human life. 

It is because of the endorsement of Pius XII that seems to blind many to the problems of Von Hildebrand.  Frankly, you would be better to stick to the writings of TRULY orthodox writers like Garigou-Lagrange.  At least he won't put you wrong or confuse you.

And for those here who would recommend that people read the likes of Maritain with the excuse that while they may spew heresies, there are some good things in their writings - would you eat porridge with poison mixed in?  If not, why would you poison your soul in the same way?

All Catholics should avoid all works by the modernists and stick exclusively to works we know are safe and follow logic - it is that which will beat the modernists, not an "understanding" of their lies.

 Yes, indeed, I concur with most of the above.Since about 1840 "theologians" have been incorporating very subtle inferences of modernism into their writings. Even be cautious of Garigou- Lagrange as he has "blessed" Darwinism under the cloak of Scholasticism.    Dear God, I know that we deserve it but can we bear it?
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