Soul and Spirit - Is there a difference?
#11
(08-26-2009, 03:36 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(08-26-2009, 12:54 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Yes, the priest pointed out to me the same quote from Ott.

I'm thinking you and I are in the same boat.  Intellectually and philosophically, trichotomism makes more sense to me.  However, since the Church has for all practical purposes spoken on the matter, I accept dichotomism as the Truth even if it is not intellectually or philosophically clear to me.  I know it to be true because it is a teaching of the Church, not because it makes sense to me.  Hopefully, some day I'll "get it" and it won't take an act of will on my part to accept it  :laughing:  Until then, I realize the Church knows more than I and just accept that there is a flaw in my reasoning that I don't yet see.  Maybe that helps..?

Yes, it does.  You took the words out of my mouth  :laughing:
Reply
#12
probably Rosarium will correct me, but hasn't historically the definition of ghost and spirit been reverse, hence why the Holy Spirit is referred to as the Holy Ghost in most literature prior to the 20th century. 
Reply
#13
(08-26-2009, 05:10 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: probably Rosarium will correct me, but hasn't historically the definition of ghost and spirit been reverse, hence why the Holy Spirit is referred to as the Holy Ghost in most literature prior to the 20th century. 

No, they have the same meaning. It has to do with Latinate preference, which often is seen as more refined or proper by some people.
Reply
#14
I think I have a tougher question:

Is the human mind distinctive from the human intellect (and hence the soul)? Because they're heretical gospels that tell about the mind and the soul being different things and the mind being a link between the body and the soul. So the intellect is spiritual but is the mind spiritual also?
Reply
#15
(08-27-2009, 05:28 PM)GodFirst Wrote: I think I have a tougher question:

Is the human mind distinctive from the human intellect (and hence the soul)? Because they're heretical gospels that tell about the mind and the soul being different things and the mind being a link between the body and the soul. So the intellect is spiritual but is the mind spiritual also?

It is hard to accurately envision what a human is, because we are fallen.

If we had an Immaculate person to use, we'd probably see perfection in body and spirit.
Reply
#16
(08-27-2009, 05:28 PM)GodFirst Wrote: I think I have a tougher question:

Is the human mind distinctive from the human intellect (and hence the soul)? Because they're heretical gospels that tell about the mind and the soul being different things and the mind being a link between the body and the soul. So the intellect is spiritual but is the mind spiritual also?

It depends on what you mean by "mind".  The ones you are referring to are most likely Christian Gnostic and Neo-Platonic in origin, and the model there is different.  But the model as I understand it is also different than you describe.  In the pagan Neo-Platonic model,  Mind refers to the Nous (Intellect) of the One and is the holder of Platonic ideals from which reality emanates, the Soul operates in time and is the intermediary between Nature and the Mind.  So, either I'm not thinking about what you're thinking about, or you meant that the soul is the link between the body and the mind.

Was there one particular Gospel you were thinking of (and do you have a link to the text)?
Reply
#17
Rosarium Wrote:
GodFirst Wrote:I think I have a tougher question:

Is the human mind distinctive from the human intellect (and hence the soul)? Because they're heretical gospels that tell about the mind and the soul being different things and the mind being a link between the body and the soul. So the intellect is spiritual but is the mind spiritual also?
It is hard to accurately envision what a human is, because we are fallen.
That smacks of some kind of error, it seem to me. We are fallen, not deprived of our intellects.

Quote:If we had an Immaculate person to use, we'd probably see perfection in body and spirit.
I was just asking about the Church's theology or doctrine on what human nature is. Does the Church infallibly teach that human nature is merely spiritual soul and physical body? Or can there be a physical or spiritual mind which connects the two? Or is that just another heresy in that heretical "gospel"?
Reply
#18
(08-27-2009, 09:07 PM)GodFirst Wrote: I was just asking about the Church's theology or doctrine on what human nature is. Does the Church infallibly teach that human nature is merely spiritual soul and physical body? Or can there be a physical or spiritual mind which connects the two? Or is that just another heresy in that heretical "gospel"?

Body and soul is dogmatic, but there are aspects that are not dogmatic such as the "organization" of the soul, etc.
Reply
#19
QuisUtDeus Wrote:
GodFirst Wrote:I was just asking about the Church's theology or doctrine on what human nature is. Does the Church infallibly teach that human nature is merely spiritual soul and physical body? Or can there be a physical or spiritual mind which connects the two? Or is that just another heresy in that heretical "gospel"?
Body and soul is dogmatic, but there are aspects that are not dogmatic such as the "organization" of the soul, etc.
What then is "the mind" that our Lord distinguishes from "the soul" and "the heart" in these Scripture verses: Matthew 22: 37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.
Luke 10:27 He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself.?
Reply
#20
(08-28-2009, 02:03 AM)GodFirst Wrote:
QuisUtDeus Wrote:
GodFirst Wrote:I was just asking about the Church's theology or doctrine on what human nature is. Does the Church infallibly teach that human nature is merely spiritual soul and physical body? Or can there be a physical or spiritual mind which connects the two? Or is that just another heresy in that heretical "gospel"?
Body and soul is dogmatic, but there are aspects that are not dogmatic such as the "organization" of the soul, etc.
What then is "the mind" that our Lord distinguishes from "the soul" and "the heart" in these Scripture verses: Matthew 22: 37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.
Luke 10:27 He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself.?

Well, first you have to realize that Jesus is quoting Deuteronomy (or paraphrasing it at least):

5 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole strength.  (Deut 6:5)

In this case, mind/strength might imply the use of will and we should love God with all our will - our mental strength - and the writer of the Gospel made it clearer to the Greek mind what the original Hebrew intends.  Or, it could be that it was written down or translated into the Greek in such a way that the words were rendered a bit different.

In any case, it's clear He is quoting Deuteronomy, and in Deuteronomy there is no reference to "mind" in the sense you are thinking of.  The meaning of the passage in Deuteronomy and the meaning of Christ is that we are to love God entirely with all of ourselves, both body and soul, in all ways possible.

If there were a partition here, then how does it break down?  Is the heart emotions, the mind our thoughts, the soul our prayers, the strength our bodies?  It should be clear there isn't a break down into constituent parts of where we only have X, Y, and Z.  This isn't an ontological teaching on the structure of man - in other words, He isn't distinguishing the parts of man here, that isn't His intent.  The meaning of the passage is that we are to love God with our entirety, and to make it an ontological teaching is to miss the point.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)