Ad orientem-early Church fathers
#1
Hi everyone. Does anyone know any early Church fathers that talked about ad orientem worship? I keep hearing about this but would like to find out more to prove that ad orientem worsihp was there from the beggining. Thankyou ;D
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#2
I believe Prophet Moses prayed with his people in the same direction, as well as Temple sacrifices being done facing away from the people. I will research this tomorrow when I have more time.

Meanwhile, you may wish to explore this book:

Turning Towards the Lord - http://www.amazon.com/Turning-Towards-Lo...0898709865

Perhaps you will find quotes from the Fathers in there.
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#3
As in Scriptures, the Fathers only commented if some sect or rogue priest was doing something wrong.  And I'm pretty that even with all the various sects, "versus populum" worship wasn't even on the radar.  This "ancient way of doing things" only goes as far back as the 1960s...
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#4
(08-26-2009, 10:09 PM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote: As in Scriptures, the Fathers only commented if some sect or rogue priest was doing something wrong.  And I'm pretty that even with all the various sects, "versus populum" worship wasn't even on the radar.  This "ancient way of doing things" only goes as far back as the 1960s...

Not that I necessarily disagree, but other than your (and my) personal preference, what do you base this on?  Silence on the  subject does not in and of itself indicate that ad orientem was the common practice.
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#5
I've always understood that the first Masses were said in the catacombs, and because the catacombs were underground, they would necessarily *have* to face towards the Lord/away from the people?
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#6
(08-27-2009, 03:07 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: I've always understood that the first Masses were said in the catacombs, and because the catacombs were underground, they would necessarily *have* to face towards the Lord/away from the people?

Well the very first would have been said in Jewish believers homes. I suppose the Mass was simpler than the TLM but not as stupid as the NO and as has been pointed out the temple sacrifices were done facing away from the people the early Masses were probably the same. In fact in the Temple times the High Priest only went behind the temple veil once a year to offer sacrifice and incense during passover I believe. The people couldnt even see his back then because the temple veil to the Holy of Holies was closed behind him. Chew on that one Kardinal Mahony.
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#7
(08-27-2009, 11:44 PM)Baskerville Wrote:
(08-27-2009, 03:07 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: I've always understood that the first Masses were said in the catacombs, and because the catacombs were underground, they would necessarily *have* to face towards the Lord/away from the people?

Well the very first would have been said in Jewish believers homes. I suppose the Mass was simpler than the TLM but not as stupid as the NO and as has been pointed out the temple sacrifices were done facing away from the people the early Masses were probably the same. In fact in the Temple times the High Priest only went behind the temple veil once a year to offer sacrifice and incense during passover I believe. The people couldnt even see his back then because the temple veil to the Holy of Holies was closed behind him. Chew on that one Kardinal Mahony.

In most eastern liturgies isn't it still done behind a veil or screen the consecrations?

Also, when they were building Rog Mahal, they said they cited scripture in designing it.  I guess he skipped the part about the tabernacle [Image: taber_open.jpg]
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#8
(08-27-2009, 11:55 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote:
(08-27-2009, 11:44 PM)Baskerville Wrote:
(08-27-2009, 03:07 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: I've always understood that the first Masses were said in the catacombs, and because the catacombs were underground, they would necessarily *have* to face towards the Lord/away from the people?

Well the very first would have been said in Jewish believers homes. I suppose the Mass was simpler than the TLM but not as stupid as the NO and as has been pointed out the temple sacrifices were done facing away from the people the early Masses were probably the same. In fact in the Temple times the High Priest only went behind the temple veil once a year to offer sacrifice and incense during passover I believe. The people couldnt even see his back then because the temple veil to the Holy of Holies was closed behind him. Chew on that one Kardinal Mahony.

In most eastern liturgies isn't it still done behind a veil or screen the consecrations?

Also, when they were building Rog Mahal, they said they cited scripture in designing it.  I guess he skipped the part about the tabernacle [Image: taber_open.jpg]

Yes in the Orthodox Church where I used to go when I was Orthodox they have a huge wall usualy from floor to ceiling coverd in Icons. Behind that is the Alter and the Priest enters it through what are called the Royal doors. The doors dont cover the whole thing but you could only see the top of his head turned towards the alter of course. That was just my Church though I know that the Coptic Orthodox use a veil instead of the doors and the Priest is entirely hidden.
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#9
(08-27-2009, 11:55 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: [quote='Baskerville' pid='436548' dateline='1251431084']
[quote='CollegeCatholic' pid='436252' dateline='1251400062']


Also, when they were building Rog Mahal, they said they cited scripture in designing it.  I guess he skipped the part about the tabernacle [Image: taber_open.jpg]

No they probably just used the wiccan or some other pagan scriptures that thing looks creepy. :pazzo:
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#10
(08-29-2009, 12:00 AM)Baskerville Wrote: No they probably just used the wiccan or some other pagan scriptures that thing looks creepy. :pazzo:

Ha. Wiccans generally have better aesthetic taste than that.
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