Funeral Rite for the Supreme Pontiff
#11
(08-30-2009, 04:19 PM)Stubborn Wrote: You might be able to garner more info from these links:

http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2009/0...preme.html

http://www.life.com/image/50388324

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I am the author of that first post.  I put together what people on here and Angel Queen were saying.  But, as the above post indicates, I need to fill in a few more gaps.  And you hit the nail on the head: I need to find photos of the celebrant of the Papal Funeral Liturgy to confirm what others from forums had been telling me.

Anyone happen to know who said the funeral Mass for John XXIII or Ven. Pius XII?
Reply
#12
(08-31-2009, 10:08 PM)acatholiclife Wrote: Anyone happen to know who said the funeral Mass for John XXIII or Ven. Pius XII?

Well, His Eminence  Eugène-Gabriel-Gervais-Laurent, Cardinal Tisserant  was Dean of the Sacred College when they both died and according to Wikipedia, celebrated their funeral Masses.

***Edited to add***

Matthew, why the 'Ven.' before Pope Pius' name but no 'Bl.' before that of Pope John? :)
Reply
#13
I was able to find these photos of Cardinal Tisserant on the Photo Archives of LIFE.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Tisserant+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTisserant%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den&imgurl=96826192786f78f1

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Tisserant+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTisserant%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den&imgurl=70846268af999f13  [Caption here says "Cardinal Eugene Tisserant officiating at mass in memory of Pope Pius XII."]

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Tisserant+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTisserant%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den&imgurl=c9bedd4ac0eeac83

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Tisserant+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTisserant%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den&imgurl=89acf5772aa75a53
Reply
#14
(08-31-2009, 10:17 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Matthew, why the 'Ven.' before Pope Pius' name but no 'Bl.' before that of Pope John? :)

Guess that I not in the habit of returning to Pope John that way.  ;)
Reply
#15

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=post+funeral+source:life&imgurl=33004991c46f9ca4

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=post+funeral+source:life&imgurl=c9e83b50a24942fb

Color photos of the Funeral of Pope Pius XII do illustrate black vestments.
Reply
#16
(08-29-2009, 11:59 PM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote:
(08-29-2009, 09:35 PM)OldMan Wrote: A requiem Mass is celebrated in black - even for the pope. The red nonsense started with Paul VI.

Uh, no.

[Image: FuneralServiceforPopePiusXII2.jpg]

Although the picture is grainy, this is clearly Pope Pius XII.  He's wearing all the Papal vestments, and the corpse is heavily decomposed (thanks to the charlatan who embalmed him).  The guard in the picture is also part of one of the orders that Paul VI abolished.

Are you sure it's Pius XII and not Paul VI?  From that picture, all I can say for sure is that the dead man is a thin pope in red.  Paul VI's body also did not hold up well and had to be restored before the funeral, so the unusual pallor of the corpse could indicate Paul VI as much as Pius XII.  I remember Pius XII's death well but never saw a photo of his body -- the American media just didn't show bodies back then -- so I can't say whether he was dressed in red or not.  Maybe someone else remembers.


[Image: LiesinState1958.jpg]

Here's His Holiness lying in state.  The red vestments can also been seen.

The man in the lower photo has purple as well as red vestments and is missing the white vestment on the upper part of the pope's body in the top photo.  Also, that room doesn't look like it's in the Vatican while the first photo looks like it was taken in St. Peter's and there are Swiss Guards near the bier.  I think these have to be two different men.
Reply
#17
(08-30-2009, 12:20 AM)acatholiclife Wrote:
(08-29-2009, 11:59 PM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote: [Image: LiesinState1958.jpg]

Here's His Holiness lying in state.  The red vestments can also been seen.

No, I believe this is Cardinal Mooney of Detroit - not Pope Pius XII.  I have seen some confusion about this on the Internet. 

Perhaps.  However, the first photo is most certainly a Pope (he's wearing the fanon over the chasuble).  I'd also assume its a pre-VII Pope, first because the Google Image search on "Pius XII funeral" turned up this one.  And acatholiclife's website shows similar photos from Pius XII's funeral:

[Image: Pope+Pius+XII+%2842%29.jpg]

[Image: Pope+Pius+XII+%2821%29.jpg]
Reply
#18
(09-02-2009, 05:18 PM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote:
(08-30-2009, 12:20 AM)acatholiclife Wrote:
(08-29-2009, 11:59 PM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote: [Image: LiesinState1958.jpg]

Here's His Holiness lying in state.  The red vestments can also been seen.

No, I believe this is Cardinal Mooney of Detroit - not Pope Pius XII.  I have seen some confusion about this on the Internet. 

Perhaps.  However, the first photo is most certainly a Pope (he's wearing the fanon over the chasuble).  I'd also assume its a pre-VII Pope, first because the Google Image search on "Pius XII funeral" turned up this one.  And acatholiclife's website shows similar photos from Pius XII's funeral:

While I'm not sure about which bishop this is in the picture, it's pretty clear that this picture shows a bishop, not the Pope. The body is vested in violet, which is the traditional color for the funeral of priests and bishops. The Pope is always vested in red. Even though the pontifical dalmatic and tunicle look to be red, the chasuble is clearly violet. The simplex mitre is also not cloth of silver, which was traditionally used for Popes. You can see in the picture of Pius XII on the bier that the mitre he is wearing is a simplex mitre made of cloth of silver.
Reply
#19
Matthew passed along some photos of Cardinal Tisserant who celebrated the Funeral Mass for Pius XII. It appears in those photos that while the Pope is vested in red (and the Pope himself traditionally never used black when he celebrated Requiem Masses, instead using red), the Cardinal who said the Mass and the minister wore black.

It is possible that the copes that are shown are just an extremely deep red velvet, but I doubt that this is the case because they look too highly decorated for velvet.

It still would be nice to find some other pictures as well of the ministers or the ceremony itself, so if anyone finds them, please post.

Here is the picture he sent:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=post+funeral+source:life&imgurl=33004991c46f9ca4

[Image: 33004991c46f9ca4_large]
Reply
#20
Here is an entire page of photos on the death of Pope Pius XII:

http://hallowedground.wordpress.com/2007...ria-mundi/

Thanks to Matamoros for linking to the page at that site showing the canonization of
Pius X in the canonizations thread.  It's a site worth exploring if you're interested in how the Church used to do things (beautifully!)
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)