Priestly garb question
#31
(08-31-2009, 07:27 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote:
(08-31-2009, 02:21 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: I think an argument could be made that modern traditional priests who play soccer or ride bikes in cassocks are recreating a traditionalism that didn't actually historically exist. I'm sure some people here could think of an example of such-and-such a priest from the 1950's who actually did so, but that's not representative of clerical culture as a whole back then. Or I could be wrong....... it's not like I was actually there.

I have heard that there are accounts of sisters skiing in full length habits back in the 50's... sounds extreme, especially in our habit-less age. But I could believe it.

The sister who was housekeeper to Pope Pius XII rode a motorcycle in full habit -- and he rode in the sidecar!  Not when he was pope, but earlier, in Munich and/or Berlin.  I'm pretty sure that she also skied in her habit but it's been a while since I read the book about her.

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#32
(09-02-2009, 05:12 AM)PaxVobiscum Wrote:
(08-31-2009, 07:27 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote:
(08-31-2009, 02:21 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: I think an argument could be made that modern traditional priests who play soccer or ride bikes in cassocks are recreating a traditionalism that didn't actually historically exist. I'm sure some people here could think of an example of such-and-such a priest from the 1950's who actually did so, but that's not representative of clerical culture as a whole back then. Or I could be wrong....... it's not like I was actually there.

I have heard that there are accounts of sisters skiing in full length habits back in the 50's... sounds extreme, especially in our habit-less age. But I could believe it.

The sister who was housekeeper to Pope Pius XII rode a motorcycle in full habit -- and he rode in the sidecar!   Not when he was pope, but earlier, in Munich and/or Berlin.   I'm pretty sure that she also skied in her habit but it's been a while since I read the book about her.

Thats so awesome!
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#33
(08-31-2009, 07:27 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote: I have heard that there are accounts of sisters skiing in full length habits back in the 50's... sounds extreme, especially in our habit-less age. But I could believe it.

The mentality behind the religious habit and the secular priest's clerical dress is very different. A traditional religious is bound by his or her rule to a particular outfit that they wear pretty much all the time, with little or no variation. The nun's habit that we're most familiar with is based on a style of peasant woman's dress that has gone almost unchanged since the Middle Ages.

A secular/diocesan priest is bound to wear something that lets people know he's a cleric..... but that's open to a wide variety of interpretations. The way priests have dressed has changed probably hundreds of times in the past few centuries, and unless the local bishop specifies a very certain type of dress, there's no requirement for uniformity. Also, if a priest isn't in "active duty" under a bishop or order, he's allowed (or obliged, sometimes) to wear civilian dress.

(Example: Antonio Vivaldi, inactive priest and composer in casual dress)

[Image: 200px-Antonio_Vivaldi.jpg]

(Malachi Martin, inactive priest and author in civilian suit)

[Image: Image53.jpg]
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#34
(09-02-2009, 04:05 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(09-01-2009, 05:44 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
rbjmartin Wrote:The norms of clerical dress vary from country to country.  In the USA, the norm has typically been the clerical suit, due largely to the attempt over the years by the American Catholic leadership to be less overt in their "Catholic-ness" and appease the dominant WASP sensibilities (this goes back to the 1800s, when there was much more explicit opposition to the Catholic Church in the United States).

That's my understanding of how things were in Great Britain as well. All the pictures I've seen of Monsignor Ronald Knox, for example, have him in a clerical suit.
Well, unless the law has changed recently, it is still technically against the law in Britain for a Catholic priest to appear on the streets in a cassock. It is true that it hasn't actually been enforved in probably a century, but I think it may have something to do with the prevailing fashion im Msgr Knox's time! :)

I believe that law is still on the books, but it's not enforced.  FSSP clergy wear their cassocks in the UK regularly.  Besides, some of the FSSP priests  who have been stationed in London are French, and nobody's going to tell them not to wear the cassock.

There used to be similar laws in Mexico, thanks to the anti-clerical Freemasonic government.  Apparently, those laws have been recently repealed, but you still have Masonic types that are adamant against it.  A few years ago, some FSSP seminarians went on a pilgrimage to see the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and they were approached by a man on the street who was yelling at them that they couldn't wear their cassocks because it was illegal.  They told the guy something like, "It's not the law anymore, Mason!"
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