Ugh..."Church in the Round" - ca. 1953!
#61
There are Novus Ordo churches that display both flags in the sanctuary and others that don't - or they put them outside the sanctuary. It's mainly up to what the pastor wants. Or the bishop of the diocese. Here's what catholicliturgy.com says:

Quote: Flags, Display of in Roman Catholic Churches (US) 

Surprisingly to many, there are no regulations of any kind governing the display of flags in Roman Catholic Churches. Neither the Code of Canon law, nor the liturgical books of the Roman rite comment on this practice. As a result, the question of whether and how to display the American flag in a Catholic Church is left up to the judgment of the diocesan bishop, who in turn often delegates this to the discretion of the pastor.

The origin of the display of the American flag in many parishes in the United States appears [to] have its origins in the offering of prayers for those who served during the Second World War (1941-1945). At that time, many bishops and pastors provided a book of remembrance near the American flag, requesting prayers for loved ones -- especially those serving their country in the armed forces -- as a way of keeping before the attention of the faithful the needs of military families. This practice has since been confirmed in many places during the Korean, Viet Nam and Iraqi conflicts.

The Bishops´ Committee on the Liturgy has in the past encouraged pastors not to place the flag within the sanctuary itself, in order to reserve that space for the altar, the ambo, the presidential chair and the tabernacle. Instead, the suggestion has been made that the American flag be placed outside the sanctuary, or in the vestibule of the Church together with a book of prayer requests. It remains, however, for the diocesan bishop to determine regulations in this matter.

http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm...awIndex/45
Reply
#62
(09-06-2009, 09:04 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: LOL, neo-trad.

Yes, the mantilla can be kind of a neo-tradism depending on what culture you're from, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. Just as long as you don't go around saying "my grandmother and great-grandmother wore the same thing", when they actually wore hats or other types of headcovering. I prefer hats as well.

Well, if your grandmother lived in another country, or had moved to the US from another country, she may well have worn a mantilla.  Strict Catholic Girl and I were talking about the average American parish in the Fifties/Sixties.  When I lived in the Philippines in the mid-Fifties, the Filipino women definitely wore mantillas.  Some older Filipinas in my NO parish wear them today but you don't see many veils at the Spanish Mass.  Go figure.

Reply
#63
(09-06-2009, 09:04 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: The first women to wear their hair exposed were probably the Italians, around the 1300's. They started wearing sheer veils or netted snoods.

Floozies.
Reply
#64
(09-06-2009, 09:04 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: LOL, neo-trad.

Yes, the mantilla can be kind of a neo-tradism depending on what culture you're from, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. Just as long as you don't go around saying "my grandmother and great-grandmother wore the same thing", when they actually wore hats or other types of headcovering. I prefer hats as well.

No, it's not a bad thing. I don't have anything against veils per se, or even mantillas. It's the American Mantilla CULT I hate. It's this new trend that screams "Look at how traditional and pious I am." I don't like LACE mantillas being up on a pedestal or paraded as "traditional" or "superior" or "holier." If we want to say they're more feminine, fine. Anything lacy is feminine.

Queen Isabella made them popular in Spain and from what I understand this is why noblewomen still wear them when visiting the Pope. The original mantillas were very high - in Spain they are still very high - it's impossible NOT to notice them. They are a mark of prestige and beauty and that's exactly why they attract attention. But some American women today puff themselves up with the notion that mantillas are THE symbol of Catholic piety and tradition. It's a MAJOR pet peeve of mine.

Now..; were there HATS in the old days that were signs of prestige and beauty? Were there hats that were a distraction? Oh-ho, you betcha!! But we don't want to say maybe it's better that women wear nothing on their heads. No. If there's any up side to it at all, it's that I can just go to Mass and it's one less thing to think about. But there are those who spend hours every Sunday thinking about their appearance. Perhaps it's better than not caring about one's appearance at all, but that's another thread..I've derailed this one enough. lol

- Lisa
Reply
#65
PaxVobiscum Wrote:Well, if your grandmother lived in another country, or had moved to the US from another country, she may well have worn a mantilla.  Strict Catholic Girl and I were talking about the average American parish in the Fifties/Sixties.  When I lived in the Philippines in the mid-Fifties, the Filipino women definitely wore mantillas.  Some older Filipinas in my NO parish wear them today but you don't see many veils at the Spanish Mass.  Go figure.

Hi PaxVobiscum, I remember one of my aunts telling us a long time ago (prob. when my sister has her First Communion) that the mantilla was actually a fairly new innovation in the Philippines in the 1950s. Up until the end of Spanish rule, it was identified with the Spanish senoras, who would wear it to Mass complete with the peineta. The average 'india' would probably wear a 'panuelo' or what is called a 'lambong' in Tagalog. It was basically a piece of black or white cloth (black, generally, since the lambong is essentially a mourning veil) more akin to a shawl than a veil; in some instances, it would be buttoned under the chin, while the more common way of wearing it was to clasp the edges by hand or to tie it loosely (Pics here and here). In some provinces in the Philippines, especially in the Visayas, the use of the lambong is still very prevalent, especially come Holy Week.
Reply
#66
(09-06-2009, 04:16 AM)Walty Wrote: .  This has no basis in tradition does it?  .

During the middle ages before their supression the Knights Templar built "Churches in the round".
Reply
#67
(09-06-2009, 11:01 AM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote: The 60's didn't come from nowhere.  They came out of the 50's.

Trads often forget this.

Same with the Liturgy. The freemason Bugnini first started messing with it in the 1950's when Pius XII's health began to fail.

I have also seen posts on Angelqueen with pics of Mass being celebrated versus populum in 1946.
Reply
#68
(09-06-2009, 10:09 PM)Matamoros Wrote:
PaxVobiscum Wrote:Well, if your grandmother lived in another country, or had moved to the US from another country, she may well have worn a mantilla.  Strict Catholic Girl and I were talking about the average American parish in the Fifties/Sixties.  When I lived in the Philippines in the mid-Fifties, the Filipino women definitely wore mantillas.  Some older Filipinas in my NO parish wear them today but you don't see many veils at the Spanish Mass.  Go figure.

Hi PaxVobiscum, I remember one of my aunts telling us a long time ago (prob. when my sister has her First Communion) that the mantilla was actually a fairly new innovation in the Philippines in the 1950s. Up until the end of Spanish rule, it was identified with the Spanish senoras, who would wear it to Mass complete with the peineta. The average 'india' would probably wear a 'panuelo' or what is called a 'lambong' in Tagalog. It was basically a piece of black or white cloth (black, generally, since the lambong is essentially a mourning veil) more akin to a shawl than a veil; in some instances, it would be buttoned under the chin, while the more common way of wearing it was to clasp the edges by hand or to tie it loosely (Pics here and here). In some provinces in the Philippines, especially in the Visayas, the use of the lambong is still very prevalent, especially come Holy Week.

Magandang araw, Matamoros.  I'm so disappointed -- the links to the photos don't work, I just get "DNS error" messages.  I tried a search for "my sari sari store" and found the site listed but that link didn't work, either.  I also tried fooling around with the HTML in case a _ was supposed to be a . but couldn't get anywhere with that. 

When I say "mantilla," I simply mean a lace veil, not necessarily a long one like the ones women wear to meet the Pope.  As I remember, the veils that the Filipinas were wearing was more like the simple lace veils we started wearing here in the mid-Sixties, with the back of the veil generally coming down to the base of the neck only.  Maybe it was a regional thing in the RP, with women only wearing lace veils in Luzon in the Fifties, or maybe just in Zambales. 


Reply
#69
QuisUtDeus Wrote:We don't revolt like Protestants and Freemasons at the drop of a hat

I'm not sure this is accurate. Catholics occasionally do revolt against their governing authorities. The Vendee and Cristero wars, explicitly Christian rebellions, come to mind. Many of the 1848 rebellions were bred in Catholic milieus, as was the Irish conflict against the English in the 1920s.

Not only that, but a major Catholic critique of Protestantism has long been that they are wedded too much to the civil rulers.
Reply
#70
(09-06-2009, 07:42 AM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
(09-06-2009, 07:08 AM)timjp77 Wrote: notice none of the women are wearing chapel veils.

None. Everybody wore hats. . at least in the USA.

Nothing screams "neo trad" more than a mantilla.
My wife wears mantillas all the time; she's Hispanic.  And we certainly aren't neo-Trads.  Started re-attending the old Mass as soon as it was available to us in the mid 70's, not too long after the new Mass arrived on the scene.

I remember many years ago attending Mass in Florida with my wife.  She had on a mantilla of course.  A woman who was originally from Colombia came up to her after Mass and, with tears in her eyes, said that my wife's mantilla reminded her of home. 

Mantillas, rather long ones, were the norm in past years where my sister lives:  Valencia, Spain.

http://www.valenciavalencia.com/photos-v...encian.htm

Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)