The Holy See’s team for the SSPX talks?
(09-08-2009, 11:02 PM)Rosarium Wrote: Modernism is already condemned by the Church.

Well I guess that negates Vatican II and all of its Popes. Woops
Rosarium Wrote:Now everyone is the Church, post-Vatican II, holds Modernism.
......Vatican II does not teach anything new infallibly.
That might not be exactly the truth. Vatican II was not dogmatic but infallible is another thing all together. An teaching not being a dogma, does not mean it is not infallible.
Rosarium Wrote:The Church has always had sinners.
But the Church cannot have heretics, such sinners are excluded from our Holy Mother.
(09-10-2009, 02:10 AM)GodFirst Wrote: But the Church cannot have heretics, such sinners are excluded from our Holy Mother.
They may be excluded in reality and therefore it affects their salvation, but unless there is canonical penalty, it would never be official. Heretics have to be officially declared as heretics by the Church, which means canonical punishment.
The problem with the Church is that it is full of heretics at every level. The majority of Catholics are not oly heretics, but have become apostate.

The Church has not used her disciplinary power at all in forty years, which leads to a Church full of heretics, which are never declared as such, because the clerics in the Church, never use any discipline and stopped declaring people heretical.
Here's a couple articles by two of the theologians mentioned in the OP, Frs. Becker and Ocariz respectively, on the controversial phrase "subsistit in."  I think these are good examples of where they're coming from, so to speak.

You lost me.

The Church should be the one that clears out the cockle from within the Church Militant, and She has the authority to do so by anathema.  What She cannot do is judge someone worthy of heaven or hell which is what the quote in Matthew is speaking about.

When I say Modernism should be ejected from the Church, of course I mean by those in lawful authority who not only have a right but a duty to eject heretical thought from theology, etc.

(09-09-2009, 03:11 PM)glgas Wrote: I am sorry but now only the Church or the pope has the right to issue anathemas, or define what is to be condemned, and apply that definition to individual people or groups.  The Church condemned some groups, like womenpriests, married priests, sedevacantists, but the Church is very cautious in other areas.  Our understanding is limited, so for us the advise is still

Matt 13:30 Suffer both to grow until the harvest, and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers: Gather up first the cockle, and bind it into bundles to burn, but the wheat gather ye into my barn.

We pray for it, we wait for it but we are not the God's appointed reapers, no matter who much tempting role it is.

One biblical quote does not make a worldview, but if a biblical quote does not fit into our worldview, than our view is wrong. Only the whole together adds up as the truth.

(09-09-2009, 02:11 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: I guess the Church should never have issued all those anathemas, right?

Quote:Galatians 1:6-10

6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. 7 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

I'm thinking St. Paul repeated the statement twice for emphasis because he thought it important.
SSPX vs Opus Dei/Jesuits/ this some kind of joke?? :laughing:
(09-10-2009, 06:45 PM)Orville_B_Croft Wrote: SSPX vs Opus Dei/Jesuits/ this some kind of joke?? :laughing:

Sounds like a cage match to end all cage matches...
I hope the SSPX has the humility to realize they're dealing with the 'big boys' now.  These aren't the loopey priests ordained in the late 1960s that didn't receive much of a theological education.  These men are some of the best, and will give the SSPX a run.  (I don't think the Vatican crowd is going to be the one on the least on most issues.  I do think we'll see better interpretations of some Conciliar documents, though.)

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