Holy mess: 11 million Irish Americans leave Catholic Church
#11
The number of people with no religion grew from 8% in 1990 to 15% in 2008.

Since God was ousted from the schools and public life in the fifties, now the third generation is brainwashed in the school: you can life well without God. Related to this the 15% should be considered that we are fortunate that only 15% and no more.

The tragic is that even good catholics belive that the godless education and public life is something secondary, negotiable issue.

As for the Irish American 36 million people in the US claim Irish ancestry. If 30% of them left the Church, probably this is the result, that they were (together with the Italians) most involved by the lack of public religious education. Not they, but those people shall be blamed who removed the religion from the public life.

laszlo
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#12
It's a tragedy but not unexpected. Irsh Smirish, we have approx.75 mm Catholics and 20% are practicing, with maybe .5mm trads. It ain't just the Irish, Italians, or the Germans, etc. I'm with Laszlo in that those that are responsible for the removal of God will have a lot of explaining to do to God. It appears that nobody cares where or why they have wandered off.
tim
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#13
Who's to say those 11 million Irish were ever anything more than nominal Catholics? Most were probably Baptised and haven't darkened the door of a church since. I don't consider it a big loss (compared to the ten million Christians who left the Church at the Protestant Revolution, for instance).

glgas Wrote:Since God was ousted from the schools and public life in the fifties, now the third generation is brainwashed in the school: you can life well without God. Related to this the 15% should be considered that we are fortunate that only 15% and no more.

I'm not so sure religious education in a school setting ipso facto produces even nominal Catholics. It's a nice thought amongst many American Christians that all we need to do is "get religion back into the schools," but the problem is much deeper than saying the Our Father in the morning. My experience in the United States has found extremely devout believers trained in secular public schools, and very apathetic Christians coming out of Catholic schools. Go figure.

Please also consider that many nations in Europe do have religious instruction in their schools. Catholics, Protestants and Talmudists receive their respective religious indoctrination in the public schools - to no effect, as we all know.

I think we assume school has a larger role in forming people than it really does. Did schooling have a big influence on you? It really didn't on me. There were a few teachers I really looked up to, but it had nothing to do with them being teachers. I listened to what the TV and radio was telling me (in retrospect I could have done worse. I watched EWTN and listened to Michael Savage through high school), listened to what my books were telling me, listened to what friends were telling me. Generally speaking, beyond primary school I viewed the school system with hostility for stealing my childhood. As such, there was little influencing which they could have done. I think I was in the company of many.
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#14
(09-26-2009, 08:22 AM)Credo Wrote: I'm not so sure religious education in a school setting ipso facto produces even nominal Catholics.

I used to attend classical concerts. Very few young people are among the audience.  You have to be introduced to the classical music at early age to enjoy it. So is it with the religion. Please consider that in most families both parents work, so the kids are risen by the schools. f they do not hear about God there, then they grow up without God

Quote:Please also consider that many nations in Europe do have religious instruction in their schools. Catholics, Protestants and Talmudists receive their respective religious indoctrination in the public schools - to no effect, as we all know.

My grandpa born as Jew. His father died early, his Armenian mother married a Catholic widower, grandpa was baptized at age 5. The parents were poor, but due to his natural ancestry my grandpa got a scholarship from the baron Rothschild foundation, with the requirement, that during the education he shall receive Jewish studies too.He married a Catholic woman,  lived for 40 years in all catholic areas as Catholic man. He was teacher. Due to WWII I'd got my education from him, and his thinking was full with the orthodox Jewish ideas, and deeply influenced even my thinking.

My grandpa denied his Jewish attachment in 1950, I myself in 1990, for good reason, but one can make decision only about thing what he knows.

Quote:Did schooling have a big influence on you? It really didn't on me.

There are some revolting years in the life of everyone. One in the teenager years, and other in the middle twenties, a third at around forty. Outside of this short periods yes, the rising has deep influence on everyone, and help to make decisions. It is not indifferent weather the teachers whom you respect were atheist or religious man, and how extensively they express their views.

laszlo
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#15
Hmm, I wonder how many of them live in the Boston area?  :hmmm:
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#16
I don't think the Irish are leaving the faith in spite of the Church, but because of it. Basically, they are ashamed of what it's become.

The same goes for many other ethnics as well.

Catholics will begin returning to the Church when the Church becomes Catholic again.
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#17
Muddy Waters said "you can't lose what you ain't got... and you can't lose a woman you ain't never had", just substitute God or religion.
tim
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#18
Some of us Irish Catholics come back.
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#19
Yes we do come back, even a mongrel like me half irish and half genovese. And where I drink is Grealy's pub that has the wildest irish broad I ever met. But I harp on her and the others there to get back to the faith. Her name in Gaelic means the wench that gets men drunk, and it was appropriate. The last time 'round there she was wearing a t shirt with a very nice likeness of Our Lord in pain and agony, and and she was wearing her brown scapular. Miracles can still happen.
tim
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#20
(09-27-2009, 09:57 AM)timoose Wrote: Yes we do come back, even a mongrel like me half irish and half genovese. And where I drink is Grealy's pub that has the wildest irish broad I ever met. But I harp on her and the others there to get back to the faith. Her name in Gaelic means the wench that gets men drunk, and it was appropriate. The last time 'round there she was wearing a t shirt with a very nice likeness of Our Lord in pain and agony, and and she was wearing her brown scapular. Miracles can still happen.
tim
You have the potential to take grudge holding to an art form!

Hey, I came back. I'm the only one of all of the "good" Irish Catholic grandchildren that remember my grandparents souls to boot!
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