SSPX or Orthodox
#11
(10-01-2009, 01:00 PM)nsper7 Wrote:  Both SSPX and Orthodox have valid, but illicit, Holy Orders and their Masses/Communion would be valid, but illicit.

It is even more complicate that this. I feel this is an absurdity, but from a canonical point of view attending an orthodox service is, maybe, more advisable. Why ? Because both are valid, but only one of them is illicit. The problem of liceity cannot be apllied to churches out of communion with our Holy Catholic Church. So:
-SSPX services are valid and illicit
-Orthodox services are valid and ou of the question of liceity.

Of course, this is not my point of view, but the point of view of the Conciliar Church. This is why a marriage in an orthodox church is valid, but the marriage in a catholic one is not. When FSSP returned in full canonical position, this problem was solved by a canonical loop named "sanatio in radice", as far as I know.
Reply
#12
(10-01-2009, 01:04 PM)franklinf Wrote: Cant be serious. Who would choose a non-Catholic Mass over a CATHOLIC one? And FYI the SSPX are Catholic. So assuming there was an SSPX Church to attend you wouldn't be "in an area that had no Catholic parish."
Both are valid masses, bro. And both are illicit.

Its the same damn thing.
Reply
#13
(10-01-2009, 01:19 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(10-01-2009, 01:15 PM)franklinf Wrote:
(10-01-2009, 01:12 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(10-01-2009, 01:09 PM)franklinf Wrote: What's so hard to get? Why would you attend a Mass whose priests preach heresy vs a truly Catholic one? It's not a hard choice to make...assuming you are Catholic.

Sadly, heterodox views are sometimes preached even at a valid and licit Catholic Mass (I got to an OF/NO parish that is valid and licit, but some of the Priests may hold heterodox views), but one does not go to Mass so much to hear the Priest's homily as to receive the Sacrament. Both and SSPX and Orthodox Eucharist would be equally valid, but illicit, I believe.

I don't really understand the point of your posts or this thread for that matter. I'll make the assumption that you are Catholic. Why would you attend a non-Catholic Mas instead of a Catholic Mass?

I am Catholic and, obviously, I would prefer to attend a Catholic Mass. If the choice were between an OF or EF Catholic parish, an SSPX parish or an Ortodox parish, then there is no question. I would attend the OF/EF Catholic Mass, which is both valid and licit.

But in this hypothetical of SSPX or Orthodox Eucharist, both are valid, but both are illicit. Neither group is in full communion with the Holy See.

I'm done after this.
1) The SSPX is Catholic. Uncharitable and slanderous of you to insinuate that they aren't.
2) The SSPX is in full communion with the Holy See. No one official has said otherwise and their bishops aren't excommunicated. Suspended from priestly duties doesn't imply that they are out of communion. I'll grant you that they have an irregular status but unlike the Orthodox they recognize the supremacy of the Pope.
3) Which would you attend and why?
4) Explain why this is an issue. One is Catholic, one isn't. Is this just a roundabout way to attack the SSPX?
Reply
#14
(10-01-2009, 01:21 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Well, the SSPX pray for the Pope in the Canon, the Orthodox do not. Would be a no brainer for a Trad, but your liberal, modernist view might be different! :)

Well said.
Reply
#15
(10-01-2009, 01:22 PM)anthony Wrote:
(10-01-2009, 01:04 PM)franklinf Wrote: Cant be serious. Who would choose a non-Catholic Mass over a CATHOLIC one? And FYI the SSPX are Catholic. So assuming there was an SSPX Church to attend you wouldn't be "in an area that had no Catholic parish."
Both are valid masses, bro. And both are illicit.

Its the same damn thing.

The same thing? So attending an Orthodox  service is the same as attending a Catholic one? Why not just convert then. Its the "same damn thing" after all. Who cares about the Pope, and the Immaculate Conception, and all that nonsense, right?
Reply
#16
Quote:1) The SSPX is Catholic. Uncharitable and slanderous of you to insinuate that they aren't.

I did not mean to insinuate that the SSPX are not Catholic, but they have no Canonical standing within the Catholic Church as an order. Compared to attending an OF/EF Catholic parish, where you know the Mass is licit, the SSPX Mass will be of questionable licitness depending on who you ask.

Quote:3) Which would you attend and why?

Not sure. I have never attended a TLM or an Orthodox liturgy. If I was already a Priest (since I do have a desire for Holy Orders), I would just celebrate an NO Mass on my own if I had to. :D

Quote:4) Explain why this is an issue. One is Catholic, one isn't. Is this just a roundabout way to attack the SSPX?

Maybe it was a poor attempt at a bit of humor and being facetious, but it is also a legitimate question: what is the difference between an SSPX Mass and and Orthodox liturgy in terms of licitness and the Sunday obligation, etc.? We all know that both are valid of course.

EDIT: One of the nice things about the OF/NO is that it can be celebrated alone by the Priest if absolutely necessary. I believe the EF/TLM always requires at least one person assisting the Priest according to Canon Law.
Reply
#17
(10-01-2009, 01:30 PM)nsper7 Wrote: I have never attended a TLM or an Orthodox liturgy. If I was already a Priest (since I do have a desire for Holy Orders), I would just celebrate an NO Mass on my own if I had to. :D

Once again, nsper7, I have to ask why you're here? You are not a Trad in any sense understood by the rules of this forum and unlike another newbie I don't think you're a troll. I cannot believe that you made the above statement on a Trad forum! :) If you were already a priest and were in this situation if you were really a Trad you wouldn't be celebrating the NO/OF unless it was pastorally needed, you would celebrate a a TLM/EF!
Reply
#18
(10-01-2009, 01:30 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
Quote:1) The SSPX is Catholic. Uncharitable and slanderous of you to insinuate that they aren't.

I did not mean to insinuate that the SSPX are not Catholic, but they have no Canonical standing within the Catholic Church as an order. Compared to attending an OF/EF Catholic parish, where you know the Mass is licit, the SSPX Mass will be of questionable licitness depending on who you ask.

Quote:3) Which would you attend and why?

Not sure. I have never attended a TLM or an Orthodox liturgy. If I was already a Priest (since I do have a desire for Holy Orders), I would just celebrate an NO Mass on my own if I had to. :D

Quote:4) Explain why this is an issue. One is Catholic, one isn't. Is this just a roundabout way to attack the SSPX?

Maybe it was a poor attempt at a bit of humor and being facetious, but it is also a legitimate question: what is the difference between an SSPX Mass and and Orthodox liturgy in terms of licitness and the Sunday obligation, etc.? We all know that both are valid of course.

EDIT: One of the nice things about the OF/NO is that it can be celebrated alone by the Priest if absolutely necessary. I believe the EF/TLM always requires at least one person assisting the Priest according to Canon Law.

The difference is, Ecclesia Dei has said that one can fulfill their obligation at an SSPX Chapel, if they are doing so out of love for the TLM. And that was even in the days before the lifting of the excommunication.

I do not know that Rome has ever said Catholics can attend an Orthodox church if they do so out of love for the Divine Liturgy (although I have heard Eastern Catholics claim they can.) As a Latin Catholic, I can't give an educated opinion on this.

For me it would be SSPX, no question.


Reply
#19
(10-01-2009, 01:47 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote:
(10-01-2009, 01:30 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
Quote:1) The SSPX is Catholic. Uncharitable and slanderous of you to insinuate that they aren't.

I did not mean to insinuate that the SSPX are not Catholic, but they have no Canonical standing within the Catholic Church as an order. Compared to attending an OF/EF Catholic parish, where you know the Mass is licit, the SSPX Mass will be of questionable licitness depending on who you ask.

Quote:3) Which would you attend and why?

Not sure. I have never attended a TLM or an Orthodox liturgy. If I was already a Priest (since I do have a desire for Holy Orders), I would just celebrate an NO Mass on my own if I had to. :D

Quote:4) Explain why this is an issue. One is Catholic, one isn't. Is this just a roundabout way to attack the SSPX?

Maybe it was a poor attempt at a bit of humor and being facetious, but it is also a legitimate question: what is the difference between an SSPX Mass and and Orthodox liturgy in terms of licitness and the Sunday obligation, etc.? We all know that both are valid of course.

EDIT: One of the nice things about the OF/NO is that it can be celebrated alone by the Priest if absolutely necessary. I believe the EF/TLM always requires at least one person assisting the Priest according to Canon Law.

The difference is, Ecclesia Dei has said that one can fulfill their obligation at an SSPX Chapel, if they are doing so out of love for the TLM. And that was even in the days before the lifting of the excommunication.

I do not know that Rome has ever said Catholics can attend an Orthodox church if they do so out of love for the Divine Liturgy (although I have heard Eastern Catholics claim they can.) As a Latin Catholic, I can't give an educated opinion on this.

For me it would be SSPX, no question.

If that bolded part is true, then I would probably attend the SSPX Mass in that hypothetical situation. I really don't know. Like I said, it is hypothetical.
Reply
#20
(10-01-2009, 01:47 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote: The difference is, Ecclesia Dei has said that one can fulfill their obligation at an SSPX Chapel, if they are doing so out of love for the TLM. And that was even in the days before the lifting of the excommunication.

I do not know that Rome has ever said Catholics can attend an Orthodox church if they do so out of love for the Divine Liturgy (although I have heard Eastern Catholics claim they can.) As a Latin Catholic, I can't give an educated opinion on this.

For me it would be SSPX, no question.

You are quite correct about the PCED's statement regarding the Sunday Obligation and the SSPX. Also, since the Council a Catholic may fulfil his Obligation at an Orthodox DL if there is no Catholic Mass available and he can do so without danger of falling into schism.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)