COMMUNIQUÉ OF THE PONTIFICAL COMMISSION "ECCLESIA DEI" - From Rorate
#11
(10-26-2009, 12:45 PM)glgas Wrote: Let us pray, for the wisdom and humility for all participants, so they seek the Truth and the interest of the Church and their own truth


This is the ONLY thing you have ever written on this board that makes sense and is mostly  correct


I agree except for the relativist bolded part (that may have been a language issue...)
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#12
my evaluation of how the discussion on these issues will go on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most difficult:

the concept of Tradition, 1
the Missal of Paul VI, 3
the interpretation of Vatican Council II in continuity with Catholic doctrinal Tradition, 6
the themes of the unity of the Church and the Catholic principles of ecumenism, 4
the relationship between Christianity and non-Christian religions, and religious freedom.  7

basically, my reasoning for this is simple... which things are they going to be able to both sign a joint statement on that SSPX followers will approve of and won't get Rome in too much trouble with their ecumenical friends, Jewish friends, Muslim friends, et cetera.

it's going to be easy for them to push out very easily statements about 'Tradition'.  The Missal of Paul VI might be a thorny one, probably going to be left at the SSPX affirming its validity and leave it at that... the SSPX has a lot of rhetoric to justify in terms of Vatican II and there'll have to be an incredibly nuanced document there (which in itself is going to make the SSPX not want to sign off on it)... but I actually think with the current climate in Rome the concept of ecumenism is going to be quite easy, Rome's going to be very willing to put some wording into a document that makes it clear that ecumenism's ultimately about conversion... the non-Christian religions question will be a much harder nut to crack.

anyway, that's my opinion of how these things go... they meet and see if they can agree to a joint statement that they're both willing to sign off on.  now, I am extremely optimistic for these talks because both sides have a willingness to get the canonical situation regularized and the levels of difficulty aren't that high in my opinion when it comes to things like this.  when it comes to their doctrinal discussions with, say, the Orthodox (with whom it's pretty much the same thing: can we make joint statements and both sign off on them?) the numbers are usually mostly all 10s with some 9s... maybe occasionally an 8.  and with the Protestants (excepting Traditional Anglicans) there is generally no number lower than an 11.

we shall see.  hope and pray.
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#13
(10-27-2009, 01:36 AM)Aloysius Wrote: the relationship between Christianity and non-Christian religions, and religious freedom.  7

I thought the relationship was obvious, after all, a prominent cardinal says:

Quote:“We are not fishing in the Anglican lake; proselytism is not the policy of the Catholic Church. But if there are people who obeying their consciences want to become Catholic, we cannot shut the door,”

The question of Anglicans joining the Catholic Church is not a matter dealt with directly by the Christian unity council, but by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. A Catholic who wants to become an Anglican or an Anglican who wants to become a Catholic is dealing with “a matter of conscience, a question of faith that must be respected by all partners,”

“Nevertheless ecumenical dialogue is not aimed at making proselytism, that is a personal decision for everybody and it’s a work of the Holy Spirit we cannot interfere with.”
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#14
and if it wasn't clear that the 'Pontifical Council of Christian Unity' or whatever that thing's called that Kaspar's in charge of was being kept conspicuously away from any and all real actions of Christian Unity, I'd have given that a 9 or a 10 lol.  Since Kaspar seems to be completely out of the loop on these types of talks these days, it's closer to a 7 :cyclops:... because Kaspar doesn't really have to sign off on whatever joint statement they come up with.  Kaspar'll probably spin whatever they say when they finally reach a statement.
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#15
(10-27-2009, 01:30 PM)Aloysius Wrote: and if it wasn't clear that the 'Pontifical Council of Christian Unity' or whatever that thing's called that Kaspar's in charge of was being kept conspicuously away from any and all real actions of Christian Unity, I'd have given that a 9 or a 10 lol.  Since Kaspar seems to be completely out of the loop on these types of talks these days, it's closer to a 7 :cyclops:... because Kaspar doesn't really have to sign off on whatever joint statement they come up with.  Kaspar'll probably spin whatever they say when they finally reach a statement.

The good Cardinal's commission has been searching for trees without setting foot in a forrest for decades.
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