Proof that Medjugorje Visionaries are Frauds
#11
(10-29-2009, 09:39 PM)Walty Wrote:
(10-29-2009, 09:33 PM)CrusaderKing Wrote: I've posted this before, but here is the late Michael Davies' explanation as to why Medjugorje is a false apparition site.

http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/medjugorje.htm

It's important to remember that even approved apparitions are not binding on the faithful. Many of the Medjugorje devotees tend to be Charismatics/Novus Ordo Catholics, so if the Pope ever declares them to be false apparitions, they'll comply with his directives.

I don't know.  Some people's faith seemingly revolves around these apparitions.  There would certainly be a large number of them that would break from the Church and not listen.

Yes, the people at the centre are the first to deny the Church.
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#12
(10-29-2009, 09:39 PM)Walty Wrote:
(10-29-2009, 09:33 PM)CrusaderKing Wrote: I've posted this before, but here is the late Michael Davies' explanation as to why Medjugorje is a false apparition site.

http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/medjugorje.htm

It's important to remember that even approved apparitions are not binding on the faithful. Many of the Medjugorje devotees tend to be Charismatics/Novus Ordo Catholics, so if the Pope ever declares them to be false apparitions, they'll comply with his directives.

I don't know.  Some people's faith seemingly revolves around these apparitions.  There would certainly be a large number of them that would break from the Church and not listen.

Some of them may do just that, but many of them have "the Pope can do or say no wrong" philosophy, so that's one instance where it would be to their advantage.
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#13
I was introduced to Medjugorje in middle school. The teacher had one of my peer's mom come in to talk about the "apparitions" because she had traveled there several times. Again in high school, the same mother spoke to my religion class about Medjugorje (about 3 years ago). Recently, before the huge fallout over the laicisement (sp?) of the Franciscan priest involved, I found Michael Davies' writings on it, so it came as no surprise to me. One thing I heard is that these "apparitions" might be the work of the devil trying to subvert the message of Fatima. If not that, they were at least out for money. Anyway, I'm glad we won't have to worry about this nonsense, now that it has been essentially suppressed.
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#14
I can say this... I have two good friends (brothers) who went to Medjugorje a few years ago.  They thought it was a good experience (their mom is pretty devoted to these apparitions).  The thing is... they told me some awful stories.  A man appeared to become possessed during mass one day.  They described it as pretty supernatural and the other priests attending mass picked the man up and took him somewhere else to deal with him.  There was also a lot of talk about a hill there that they were warned by many people not to walk up at night.  For whatever reason, they did, and they said they felt evil presences and they saw a hand of some sort in the darkness next to them once.  All in all, their experience sounded very demonic.
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#15
This is a very old video because the 'children' are now middle aged!  And it is not conclusive as far as I am concerned.

Medjugorje was the cause of my reconversion some 15 years ago. It was not a flash in the pan. Many many graces have come to me in these years. The grace to become a daily communicant, the grace of a religious vocation and so much more.  There are countless other souls who can say this as well. And I was a pilgrim there in 1998 and it was an incredible journey.

I say all that and yet I do not promote Medjugorje or messages and the reason is the blatant disobedience that has been exhibited there. That is a huge red flag.  Something supernatural is happening but whether or not it is from heaven, I leave to the Church to decide and it has yet to do so. But the disobedience is a serious thing. Our Lady is not disobedient.

But there are Masses all day long and confessions as well. These are powerful means of prayer and conversion!  This is where the graces flow.
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#16
From Davies' site:
Quote:It would seem that the Vatican is delaying its announcement that nothing supernatural has occurred at Medjugorje for fear of the reaction among its devotees, but the longer it delays the announcement, which must inevitably come, the greater will be the number of those devotees and the greater their disillusionment. When the announcement comes many souls will be lost to the Church as they will prefer the authority of spurious messages to the authority of the Magisterium. It is therefore imperative that all who have a true devotion to Our Lady do everything possible by praying and by writing to persuade the Holy See to publish the verdict of the former Yugoslav Bishops' conference without further delay (see Section 6). They should also try by prayer and by persuasion to convince those who have been duped by the propaganda of the Medjugorje industry that the whole scandalous affair represents, as Mgr. Zanic expressed it, "the fruit of a fabrication, fraud, and disobedience to the Church. It is about big money and personal interest too."

If Satan was involved in this, that would certainly be his endgame.

I was a pretty true blue believer in Medjugorje for quite a number of years. One of the factors that gave it credibility for me was how long the visionaries continued this ruse. No whistleblowers in the lot of visionaries since 1981. One has to applaud their steadfastness and discipline.

As for the video, I would not have found Vicka's flinch that bothersome as a true blue believer until she explained about how she thought Our Lady was about to accidentally drop baby Jesus. I about  burst into laughter at the proposition. Whoopsie! That Jesus is a squirmy one!  
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#17
(10-29-2009, 09:21 PM)Edgecrusher Wrote: If this is a fraud, and people converted believing this happened only to find out it was a fraud, what is the likelihood they will stay Catholic, and if not stay Catholic been inclined to believe in the Church?

Exactly, I believe that there have even been conversions where the man became a priest. What happens if he finds he became priest because of a fraud? I wonder what effect that would have on his priesthood.
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#18
(10-29-2009, 10:27 PM)51olds Wrote:
(10-29-2009, 09:21 PM)Edgecrusher Wrote: If this is a fraud, and people converted believing this happened only to find out it was a fraud, what is the likelihood they will stay Catholic, and if not stay Catholic been inclined to believe in the Church?

Exactly, I believe that there have even been conversions where the man became a priest. What happens if he finds he became priest because of a fraud? I wonder what effect that would have on his priesthood.

It shouldn't have any effect.  Every priest should know that God brings good out of evil.
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#19
(10-29-2009, 10:23 PM)Beatissima Mariae Wrote: I was a pretty true blue believer in Medjugorje for quite a number of years. One of the factors that gave it credibility for me was how long the visionaries continued this ruse. No whistleblowers in the lot of visionaries since 1981. One has to applaud their steadfastness and discipline.

Interesting. I was convinced from the beginning that it was fraud &/or satanic because it was enthusiastically supported by the Communist government of Yugoslavia, unlike Lourdes and Fatima where the leftwing governments opposed them. I was solidified in my opposition by two facts, the first being that the 'apparitions' just kept goin' and goin' like the Energizer Bunny. All the approved apparitions that I am aware of were temporally finite with Fatima, at eight months, being the longest I can remember.

The final nail in the coffin, as far as I was concerned, was when E. Michael Jones did a major expose on it, he received multiple death threats, etc., again unlike Fatima and Lourdes, where the supporters humbly accepted criticism whilst clinging to the truth of what they believed.
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#20
(10-29-2009, 10:21 PM)Magdalene Wrote: Something supernatural is happening but whether or not it is from heaven, I leave to the Church to decide and it has yet to do so.

Not true. It has been condemned by the Church in the person of the Bishop of Mostar. Rome will only get involved in the case of an apparition if the Local Ordinary approves of it. It is then passed to Rome for final judgement. If the Local Ordinary condemns it as not coming from God (fraud, Satan or whatever), that's as far as it goes and it is condemned 'by the Church'.
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