Proof that Medjugorje Visionaries are Frauds
#31
LOL.
What ever happened to that chump?
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#32
Did a search on him, In 2006 there is an advertisement in a church bulletin in vancouver for him speaking on medugorje.
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#33
Wow, there is a lot of info in this documentary. Hope some of you find this useful. looks like the Franciscans are a church unto themselves there. At one point the vatican tried to reclaim power by installing regular priests and the locals broke into the bishops (Bishop Peric) residence in Mostar,kidnapped him, tore his cross off,  kept him captive, etc. Finally they sent UN troops in to restore order and get the bishop back.  More on this here.

http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/BrianF.html
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#34
(10-29-2009, 10:34 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-29-2009, 10:23 PM)Beatissima Mariae Wrote: I was a pretty true blue believer in Medjugorje for quite a number of years. One of the factors that gave it credibility for me was how long the visionaries continued this ruse. No whistleblowers in the lot of visionaries since 1981. One has to applaud their steadfastness and discipline.

Interesting. I was convinced from the beginning that it was fraud &/or satanic because it was enthusiastically supported by the Communist government of Yugoslavia, unlike Lourdes and Fatima where the leftwing governments opposed them. I was solidified in my opposition by two facts, the first being that the 'apparitions' just kept goin' and goin' like the Energizer Bunny. All the approved apparitions that I am aware of were temporally finite with Fatima, at eight months, being the longest I can remember.

The final nail in the coffin, as far as I was concerned, was when E. Michael Jones did a major expose on it, he received multiple death threats, etc., again unlike Fatima and Lourdes, where the supporters humbly accepted criticism whilst clinging to the truth of what they believed.
Well, my first exposure to Medjugorje was from a 20/20 report on television when I was about 18 years old, around 1989. The report made it seem very credible, and the experience was probably not unlike the experience one felt when first exposed to Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe. There is an instant recognition, that wow, Our Lady is a very real person that we can communicate with, as I would communicate with a person right next to me. It meant a higher level of reality as it were, in regards to the heavenly court, if that makes any sense.  Not that I didn't believe any of this before, but it really hit home in surely the same way the witnesses of the supernatural events in Fatima were struck...

Also to consider, this was pre-internet, and all the materials I ever came into contact with were pro-Medjugorje. I remember reading the Wayne Weible book, which was also very credible to me. I had seen videos of people having incredible  conversions there. I was particularly struck by one story where a daughter talked her father into going. The father was, well allegedly anyways, a hopeless gambling addict. Vicka, or Maria, laid hands on him...and afterwards he broke down, sobbing uncontrollably in repentance...it was moving and convincing, what can I tell you. Then of course there are the testimonies of the pilgrims...more conversions, rosaries turning to gold etc...

Then for many years, I really didn't dabble in Marian apparitions, genuine or otherwise. But after reading various exposes on Medjugorje, it's obvious to me it's not authentic.

If you were able to determine from the beginning it was not real, congratulations! Here's a cookie.  :P
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#35
If God cannot write straight with crooked lines, He cannot pass a rich man through the eye of a needle, so someone had better inform Him. I guess Our Lord will have to be made to recant . . .
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#36
I think the point was that, at the most literal level, you can't make something straight out of crooked lines.  It's a logical fallacy and those apply to God by His very Nature.  It's exactly the same as the idea that God cannot make a 4 sided triangle.

That being said, God can obviously transform a crooked line into a straight line.  He often takes the bad and brings good out of it.

You guys are both right.  You are just talking about different things.
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#37
A bunch of info here on medugorj.
http://www.evangelizationstation.com/htm_html/Heresies%20&%20Falsehoods/Medjugorje/medjugorje.htm
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#38
I had a bad feeling about this stuff when it was first mentioned and the more I hear the more convinced I become that this is diabolic.  The people who have been sucked in are very hostile to any skeptics.  This guy, Michael Brown, and those of his ilk, are really grasping at straws to defend this.  Read his latest - http://www.spiritdaily.net/waynebishop.htm

The last straw for me was "Caritas of Birmingham."  Bosnia wasn't good enough, so they took the show on the road.  Wow.  Just, wow.  http://www.caritasofbirmingham.org/home.htm

::)
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#39
(10-30-2009, 12:43 PM)Beware_the_Ides Wrote: I had a bad feeling about this stuff when it was first mentioned and the more I hear the more convinced I become that this is diabolic.  The people who have been sucked in are very hostile to any skeptics.  This guy, Michael Brown, and those of his ilk, are really grasping at straws to defend this.  Read his latest - http://www.spiritdaily.net/waynebishop.htm

The last straw for me was "Caritas of Birmingham."  Bosnia wasn't good enough, so they took the show on the road.  Wow.  Just, wow.  http://www.caritasofbirmingham.org/home.htm

::)
Is that the place where people could go in and actually "pray in the seer's bedroom" and they actually got the BVM to go on tour and appear in a prearranged meadow?

Nope, nothing unwholesome or totally profit-driven there. Oh, no. I truly think that the NO parishes got behind this so much as an attempt to achieve heavenly validation for the wreckovation of the liturgy.
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#40
Yep, that's the place.  The "apparitions" actually occur in the bedroom too.  They always happen around the July 4th holiday.  Quite a convenient time for those who can't afford to fly to Medjugorje to schedule a vacation.  Honestly, this seems so contrived and transparent.  I don't understand how so many people get ensnared.
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