Vatican condemns Hallowe'en as anti-Christian
#41
(10-31-2009, 11:43 PM)Fidelis Wrote:
(10-30-2009, 02:43 PM)Tulkas Wrote: About time!   :boxers:


Reminds me, I got to disconnect the doorbell tonight.
How cruel!

Kids like me would throw our toothbrushes, candied apples and other crappy treats at houses like yours. We would even knock on the houses with no cars/no lights on, and we'd get some ticked off people opening the door. One lady gave us tonic water just because she was unprepared. Well that tonic water somehow found its way into a dent in her garage door. I mean tonic water? who gives that to a kid? Honestly.

Just warning yeah, kids get their vengence, and they are quick.

(10-30-2009, 07:30 PM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote: I think the most spiritual danger on Halloween comes from young people thinking its appropriate to wear less clothes than usual.  I'd be much more worried about that than from letting your kid throw a sheet on his head to get candy.
That certainly isn't a problem in Canada! Too many Halloweens would I spend getting dressed up only to have to wear a huge wintercoat over top the custume.


------------
All of that aside I'll just say this... lighten up people, its just a bunch of kids having fun dressing up in order to get some free candy. It's a whole lot of harmless fun.

Like my children get on All Saints.   I do not see a reason why anybody should participate in Halloween when we already have All Saints.  Plus, I do not have time to be doing both even if I felt like Halloween was all this "harmless" fun that you all lead yourselves to believe.  If you can, you must have way too much time on your hands.  ;D
Reply
#42
Oh, and all of this "harmless" fun must not have seen what I knew Halloween to be growing up in Chicago.  After the harmless stage in childhood, when you got to be a teenager, it meant that you HAD to do vandalism and violence for the fun.  With eggs, shaving cream, spray paint, and bloody noses.  Even a poster here attest to it.  My gangbanger friends found it a great night to escalate their warfare.  Just crap it all is.  Wake up people.
Reply
#43
From a Holy Vatican I'd take this more seriously.  I can see there is a goulish element to Halloween, and outside of America it is a dumb secular import which adding nothing to British, European or Australian culture (and let's face it that is saying something).  The fact that UK, Europe and Australia have adopt this wholesale in the last 20 years does make me think it is a lot of crap we don't need.

But frankly more Europeans and Americans are so far removed from any knowledge of the faith that this is the wrong battle to fight.  It's like telling the Aztecs not to eat meat on Fridays while they are still slaughtering people and throwing their bleeding bodies off pyramids.

And from a Vatican that covers up for child abusers and rapists in the clergy I'd say "cast the beam out of your own eye first."

Most of Rome's clergy don't give a crap about people's souls.  And why should they, since they don't believe in Hell anyway.
Reply
#44
(11-01-2009, 01:41 AM)Tulkas Wrote: Like my children get on All Saints.   I do not see a reason why anybody should participate in Halloween when we already have All Saints.  Plus, I do not have time to be doing both even if I felt like Halloween was all this "harmless" fun that you all lead yourselves to believe.  If you can, you must have way too much time on your hands.  ;D
All saints isn't as fun as halloween. It should be treated as a holy day, not as some cheap subsitute for Halloween... if you ask me, that just belittles all saints day.

And, yes, I do have too much time. Life is good as a university student. :D
Reply
#45
(11-01-2009, 01:52 AM)Tulkas Wrote: Oh, and all of this "harmless" fun must not have seen what I knew Halloween to be growing up in Chicago.  After the harmless stage in childhood, when you got to be a teenager, it meant that you HAD to do vandalism and violence for the fun.  With eggs, shaving cream, spray paint, and bloody noses.  Even a poster here attest to it.  My gangbanger friends found it a great night to escalate their warfare.  Just crap it all is.  Wake up people.
Well yeah - that's part of the fun too! Although that mostly happens on devil's night and not Halloween. But that's all good fun too. Just don't get caught. .... and please, "gangbangers" don't do that kind of harmless vandalism, normal kids under peer pressure just doing some  mischief are the ones doing it and most of them know where to draw the line.

Lord knows I had a few good devil's nights. Oh misguided youth... Good times... good times...


Reply
#46
Do you clean up the "harmless" vandalism afterwards, especially for the old that could not do it themselves.  It was always a horrible mess from what I remember.  This vandalism is far from Catholic by the way.

You did not ride with the Cicero, Illinois gangbangers like I did.  A crazy lot all of them.  So believe me.

I have no fond memories of Halloween.  That is why when a SSPX priest said not to celebrate it, I had no qualms.  Fr. Stephan Dellalo wrote a good letter about why Catholics should not celebrate.
Reply
#47
(11-01-2009, 09:02 PM)Tulkas Wrote: Do you clean up the "harmless" vandalism afterwards, especially for the old that could not do it themselves.  It was always a horrible mess from what I remember.  
lol, I'm 21 now, I was doing this 10 years ago.
Quote:This vandalism is far from Catholic by the way.
Well duh,  it's not moral or upright by any means, Catholic or otherwise.
Quote:You did not ride with the Cicero, Illinois gangbangers like I did.  A crazy lot all of them.  So believe me.
I don't doubt that you did "ride" with them. But I live out in lillly white suburbia where we don't have gang problems and the vandalism isn't that serious although it does sometimes go out of hand. Instead it is just silliness like smashing pumpkings, rolling houses and other pranks - hardly gun tootin, crack slinging, gangbanging activities. Instead its done by otherwise good kids who just get caught up in peer pressure and just being a kid. It's annoying but hardly serious.
Quote:I have no fond memories of Halloween.  That is why when a SSPX priest said not to celebrate it, I had no qualms.  Fr. Stephan Dellalo wrote a good letter about why Catholics should not celebrate.
Ugh, you just sound like a grouch. The bottom line is that Halloween is hella fun for kids. What 10 year doesn't want to dress up, get tonnes of sugar and watch gory movies they knew they shouldn't be watching?

And there's no reason that a Catholic shouldn't celebrate, no one can seriously argue that its pagan. It's just about getting scared, having fun and eating candy - its purely cultural and void of any kind of religious meaning. And no, you can't convince me that demonic spirits are working through cheap plastic masks and other cheap decoratives made in China.

Reply
#48
First, I apologize for being so tardy in my reply. I have been (and still am) very busy; I haven't been on here for several days.

(10-31-2009, 03:35 PM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(10-30-2009, 07:50 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: Those are some interesting thoughts, Fontevrault. I am a horror movie connoisseur myself, so I am interested in what you have to say. Would you mind sharing your perspective and thoughts from a moral standpoint?

I'm not sure it's entirely a moral perspective; I find stories of perverted human beings dismembering others profoundly yucky and disturbing.  But, I think I can make the stretch to talk a little about the moral perspective . . . 

Keep in mind I'm speculating as I type; I certainly don't pretend to be an authority of any kind.  A lot of those movies have some basis in occult practices, demonology, or other such stuff.  To dabble in these things is certainly bad.  Now that's not to say a simple image on a TV screen is going to damage the individual but those images have a way of staying with a person and can prey on the mind.  Our culture is so saturated with imagery today that this argument seems silly.  And yet, if pornography is evil because it arouses lust and debases human sexuality, then these movies could be said to debase and pervert the human condition (we are sinful - but hopefully not that sinful) while simultaneously portraying Satan and his minions as more powerful than they really aught to be.  In that sense, it's the difference between Milton's Satan and Dante's.  Does this make any sense?  :-[

Ok. Yes, it makes sense. I understand your point. Due to fallen human nature, mankind is fascinated with and attracted to the macabre and the basest elements of humanity . It requires divine intervention to overcome this nature - a feat which can only be accomplished by a constant cooperation with grace. As a result, engaging in entertainment which appeals to our lower nature isn't a liberty that we should be particularly catering to because of its naturally inherent influence on the base fascinations of the mind. So I can see your point about nonsense gore...

But what do you think of movies involving the paranormal in general (no nonsense gore or Satan worship), movies like "Halloween" (where a girl is being stalked by a stranger with a mask - there is no nonsense gore or mention of religious themes) and "The Strangers", movies that fall somewhere in between ("White Noise"), or movies that focus on good religious themes (such as "The Exorcism of Emily Rose")? Do you think that a fascination with that which horrifies the psyche, scares the mind, or excites the amygdalae and sympathetic nervous system is spiritually detrimental? If so, I'd be interested in your perspective and opinion.
Reply
#49
(11-02-2009, 04:36 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: First, I apologize for being so tardy in my reply. I have been (and still am) very busy; I haven't been on here for several days.

But what do you think of movies involving the paranormal in general (no nonsense gore or Satan worship), movies like "Halloween" (where a girl is being stalked by a stranger with a mask - there is no nonsense gore or mention of religious themes) and "The Strangers", movies that fall somewhere in between ("White Noise"), or movies that focus on good religious themes (such as "The Exorcism of Emily Rose")? Do you think that a fascination with that which horrifies the psyche, scares the mind, or excites the amygdalae and sympathetic nervous system is spiritually detrimental? If so, I'd be interested in your perspective and opinion.

First, INPEFESS, please don't apologize for being busy.  I certainly understand!  :)

I can't say I've seen the movies you list . . .  I have a sort of natural aversion to those things.  I couldn't sleep for days after watching Seven and haven't watched another "horror" film since.  Given that I haven't seen the movies, perhaps I might ask a question:  Assume after a long day of work you want to come home and relax.  You choose to have a beer, a little pizza, and watch one of those movies.  What do you gain from watching it?  Does it give you some feeling of catharsis?  Why do it? 

If “Halloween”  is about a stalker scenario, isn’t this deviant/obsessive behavior?  “The Strangers” looks to be about a violent assault on a couple.  Once again, it’s full of sick, depraved actions.  (IMDb is handy for plot summary.)    Don’t these two at least qualify as a fascination with the macabre?  Forgive this if it seems hypercritical.  I just don’t understand why anyone would watch these films.
Reply
#50
(11-02-2009, 10:23 PM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(11-02-2009, 04:36 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: First, I apologize for being so tardy in my reply. I have been (and still am) very busy; I haven't been on here for several days.

But what do you think of movies involving the paranormal in general (no nonsense gore or Satan worship), movies like "Halloween" (where a girl is being stalked by a stranger with a mask - there is no nonsense gore or mention of religious themes) and "The Strangers", movies that fall somewhere in between ("White Noise"), or movies that focus on good religious themes (such as "The Exorcism of Emily Rose")? Do you think that a fascination with that which horrifies the psyche, scares the mind, or excites the amygdalae and sympathetic nervous system is spiritually detrimental? If so, I'd be interested in your perspective and opinion.

First, INPEFESS, please don't apologize for being busy.  I certainly understand!  :)

I can't say I've seen the movies you list . . .   I have a sort of natural aversion to those things.  I couldn't sleep for days after watching Seven and haven't watched another "horror" film since.   Given that I haven't seen the movies, perhaps I might ask a question:  Assume after a long day of work you want to come home and relax.  You choose to have a beer, a little pizza, and watch one of those movies.  What do you gain from watching it?  Does it give you some feeling of catharsis?   Why do it? 

Well, we could get into why we like what we like, but the moral issue is what concerns me most. For many who like horror movies it is a love / hate relationship. Think of the genre as hot sauce or jalapeno peppers; they are both spicy and burn the mouth, but they both add so much flavor and zest! Or you could think of it like a terrifying roller coaster; it's scary while you're riding it for the first time, but once it's over you think, "that was fun!"

Physiologically, horror movies stimulate the amygdalae, a pair of almond-shaped regions in the brain primarily responsible for intense emotional responses and activate the sympathetic nervous system (rather than the parasympathetic). For a diagram of the amygdalae, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Constudoverbrain.png

And, although I think I see what you mean, I wouldn't quite say that anything is gained from watching any movie. Some horror movies can promote a stronger sense of spirituality. Most, however, do not accomplish this. For me, I struggle to "get into" movies. I have a hard time placing myself in the story and becoming "part" of the movie. The only genre so far which consistently succeeds in taking my attention away from all other occupations of life, eliciting my undivided attention for the entire duration of the playing time, and putting me inside the activity on the screen (because of the strong emotional appeal) is the horror genre.

But please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to justify anything with the above explanation; I'm simply answering your question pertaining to the "likeability" of horror movies.

Quote:If “Halloween”  is about a stalker scenario, isn’t this deviant/obsessive behavior?  “The Strangers” looks to be about a violent assault on a couple.  Once again, it’s full of sick, depraved actions.  (IMDb is handy for plot summary.)    Don’t these two at least qualify as a fascination with the macabre?  Forgive this if it seems hypercritical.  I just don’t understand why anyone would watch these films.

Yes, I think you're right; they would be classified as macabre. I think fallen human nature is responsible for the attraction. However, due to my career field, I am fascinated with the study of crime, criminals, and most especially, the criminal mind. I do not seek to glorify evil; rather, I am intrigued by what people do, what influences people to do what they do, and when they will do it. But I will say that many "horror" movies seek to glorify evil, either implicitly or explicitly. By specifying the glorious and potentially satisfying nature of evil, they often make evil appear attractive. And we as humans don't need any help in doing that.

What do you think of movies like Jaws, Jurassic Park, Anaconda, Alien and other movies of the thriller genre (though Jaws and Alien are technically considered horror)? Do you think there is a difference between "scary" movies and horror movies? If so, what is the difference? Can horror simply be a heightened level of scary and can scary be a less intense degree of horror?

Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)