A Problem of Traditionalism
At least DK doesn't post a lot of cliched long words in bad sentences that make as much sense as a teenage schoolgirl writing passionately about Jane Austen, like many silly trads do. He writes short bad sentences that make as much sense as a drunk, offensive nutter at a dinner table. I prefer the latter any day. But seriously, you guys are losing the battle against these "trolls", because you sound so emotional and desperate about your egos. If you're sure of your faith, you're certainly doing a bad job of showing it. Maybe you're just sure of it but not living it very well. Fair enough, but you could still do better than carrying on as if some guy has broken into your dungeons and dragons club or whatever.  ::)
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(11-07-2009, 06:40 AM)Benno Wrote: but you could still do better than carrying on as if some guy has broken into your dungeons and dragons club or whatever.  ::)
Love it. This is exactly like they are behaving. How about some intelligent refutations of the arguments presented instead of school yard insults?
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Tell u what pisseltron
U stop pissing in ur mouth for 2 weeks and ill stop insulting u! For a day
Ah
Naaaaa! I like this just fine the way it is. Kinda like a prod unionist  walking into a. Catholic republican oub LOL. Few of them were that stupid few
Sip
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I still think the best thing to do is ignore these trolls they have a warped sense of reality they  feed off of telling people that everything is okay just let them alone and maybe they'll go away.
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(11-05-2009, 09:07 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 09:06 PM)franklinf Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 08:59 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 08:57 PM)petrelton Wrote: Yes, you use the word "officially" the Pope which indicates that "morally" he is not the Pope. So you are a sede-privationist then. This kind of sentiment is not tolerated here and rightly so. Clear off.

I cannot believe that you have the balls to come here, trolling, and then tell a long time member to 'clear off'. What will it take to get rid of your modernist crap?


Even a broken clock is right twice a day

What about 24 hour clocks, like mine?
  the broken 24 hour clock will be right once a day....where did you get a 24 hour clock in the united states?  i want to buy one, can you pm me where i could find one?
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(11-07-2009, 06:40 AM)Benno Wrote: At least DK doesn't post a lot of cliched long words in bad sentences that make as much sense as a teenage schoolgirl writing passionately about Jane Austen, like many silly trads do. He writes short bad sentences that make as much sense as a drunk, offensive nutter at a dinner table. I prefer the latter any day. But seriously, you guys are losing the battle against these "trolls", because you sound so emotional and desperate about your egos. If you're sure of your faith, you're certainly doing a bad job of showing it. Maybe you're just sure of it but not living it very well. Fair enough, but you could still do better than carrying on as if some guy has broken into your dungeons and dragons club or whatever.  ::)


Actually...I've just read the thread...it was "won" by traditionalists back on page 2 with Joshua, Crusader King, Jovan, and Voxpop...that's when the discussion was over...anything else is cake...and folks are tired of going over the same ground with dopes like ptrElton...Nsper is possibly a slightly different case although some folks are tiring of him as well...Elton is just too stupid or malevolent to get it...I happen to be of the school that Nsper is going to get it sooner or later at least to some degree


WARNING...A LOT OF GUESS WORK FOLLOWS....but is the way I see it currently...and have seen it for years....I have seen no change in any of the organizations discussed


To take the discussion further requires derailment into the reasons that each trad group exists and their respective positions on various things....and I will not go into any of that...besides...a third to a half of it cannot be discussed on this forum.


I have posted in the past that as far as the trad "movement" goes... I do  not see any real separation of any of the groups since they all have the same goal...to restore trad Mass and Sacraments to parish life everywhere.

Certainly each group...FSSP, SSPX, SSPV, CMRI has different modus operandi but they exist for a Wise reason...the first line of defense in 1970 was +Antonio deCastro-Meyer and his staunch example of what a diocesan bishop should do when faced with the evil that was foisted upon the world after V2, the second line was ABL and his newly ordained priests of the SSPX and the third line was +Thuc who had gone full blown sedevacantist...as the first line failed...that is, no other dioc bishops followed the light and path shown by +AdC-M, the front line became ABL and his group...they became a world wide organization offering the Mass and sacraments all over the globe.  The new second line...the +Thuc line while more disconnected from it's founder also ended up in various corners of the world (waiting for the ABL line to fail).

then in 1983 God saw fit the creation of a new and intermediate position championed by the SSPV due to some problems they saw in the SSPX...primarily the allowance and acceptance of "priests" of the NO to perform sacraments for SSPX chapels...at least one of which refused conditional ordination (Rev. Philip Stark was the first of these...I do not know how many more there are...probably not many...but still it is a problem)

And the ABL line would have failed had ABL not taken the heroic step of consecrating 4 new bishops for his society, at which point the failed first line joined him and helped with the consecrations....so two heroes were apparent that day.

Oddly and providentially God saw fit to create a new front line out of that action...the FSSP...he even used JP2...the guy who pasted his lips to the Koran....to introduce tradition back into the Church.


So here we are with 4 primary groups of traditionalists each with it's own inherent set of problems (as view from each of the other camps)  But each of these is needed in some way to destroy the NO...and when the NO is gone...all of these will be able to be seen for what they are...true defenders of the Church...and anyone like pElton who bad mouths any of them will be seen for what he really is...a plant of the devil (the Devil who prefers that there be confusion and invalid sacraments) even though he (pElton) is too thick to see it and so rabid in his disgust and hatred of truth and true Catholic action that he would rather sink in the NO mire...even while attending a dioc TLM! than to actually become a traditionalist

Isn't it funny that the Devil...like Zero and the MOhams will use some of the greatest precepts to attempt to destroy what is good...The devil uses "obedience (false obedience), Zero uses hope (false hope), and the Mohams use our leniency and openness...the Devil is a wily one.


This is the difference between a guy like pElton, and a trad like Jovan
and there are similar examples for people who attend the SSPX, SSPV, and CMRI....those that tow the line to the absolute exclusion of any of the other groups...and cannot see the use that all the others are.
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(11-07-2009, 02:28 PM)Scipio_a Wrote:
(11-07-2009, 06:40 AM)Benno Wrote: At least DK doesn't post a lot of cliched long words in bad sentences that make as much sense as a teenage schoolgirl writing passionately about Jane Austen, like many silly trads do. He writes short bad sentences that make as much sense as a drunk, offensive nutter at a dinner table. I prefer the latter any day. But seriously, you guys are losing the battle against these "trolls", because you sound so emotional and desperate about your egos. If you're sure of your faith, you're certainly doing a bad job of showing it. Maybe you're just sure of it but not living it very well. Fair enough, but you could still do better than carrying on as if some guy has broken into your dungeons and dragons club or whatever.  ::)


Actually...I've just read the thread...it was "won" by traditionalists back on page 2 with Joshua, Crusader King, Jovan, and Voxpop...that's when the discussion was over...anything else is cake...and folks are tired of going over the same ground with dopes like ptrElton...Nsper is possibly a slightly different case although some folks are tiring of him as well...Elton is just too stupid or malevolent to get it...I happen to be of the school that Nsper is going to get it sooner or later at least to some degree


WARNING...A LOT OF GUESS WORK FOLLOWS....but is the way I see it currently...and have seen it for years....I have seen no change in any of the organizations discussed


To take the discussion further requires derailment into the reasons that each trad group exists and their respective positions on various things....and I will not go into any of that...besides...a third to a half of it cannot be discussed on this forum.


I have posted in the past that as far as the trad "movement" goes... I do  not see any real separation of any of the groups since they all have the same goal...to restore trad Mass and Sacraments to parish life everywhere.

Certainly each group...FSSP, SSPX, SSPV, CMRI has different modus operandi but they exist for a Wise reason...the first line of defense in 1970 was +Antonio deCastro-Meyer and his staunch example of what a diocesan bishop should do when faced with the evil that was foisted upon the world after V2, the second line was ABL and his newly ordained priests of the SSPX and the third line was +Thuc who had gone full blown sedevacantist...as the first line failed...that is, no other dioc bishops followed the light and path shown by +AdC-M, the front line became ABL and his group...they became a world wide organization offering the Mass and sacraments all over the globe.   The new second line...the +Thuc line while more disconnected from it's founder also ended up in various corners of the world (waiting for the ABL line to fail).

then in 1983 God saw fit the creation of a new and intermediate position championed by the SSPV due to some problems they saw in the SSPX...primarily the allowance and acceptance of "priests" of the NO to perform sacraments for SSPX chapels...at least one of which refused conditional ordination (Rev. Philip Stark was the first of these...I do not know how many more there are...probably not many...but still it is a problem)

And the ABL line would have failed had ABL not taken the heroic step of consecrating 4 new bishops for his society, at which point the failed first line joined him and helped with the consecrations....so two heroes were apparent that day.

Oddly and providentially God saw fit to create a new front line out of that action...the FSSP...he even used JP2...the guy who pasted his lips to the Koran....to introduce tradition back into the Church.


So here we are with 4 primary groups of traditionalists each with it's own inherent set of problems (as view from each of the other camps)  But each of these is needed in some way to destroy the NO...and when the NO is gone...all of these will be able to be seen for what they are...true defenders of the Church...and anyone like pElton who bad mouths any of them will be seen for what he really is...a plant of the devil (the Devil who prefers that there be confusion and invalid sacraments) even though he (pElton) is too thick to see it and so rabid in his disgust and hatred of truth and true Catholic action that he would rather sink in the NO mire...even while attending a dioc TLM! than to actually become a traditionalist

Isn't it funny that the Devil...like Zero and the MOhams will use some of the greatest precepts to attempt to destroy what is good...The devil uses "obedience (false obedience), Zero uses hope (false hope), and the Mohams use our leniency and openness...the Devil is a wily one.


This is the difference between a guy like pElton, and a trad like Jovan
and there are similar examples for people who attend the SSPX, SSPV, and CMRI....those that tow the line to the absolute exclusion of any of the other groups...and cannot see the use that all the others are.

Agreed the thread should have ended at like the third page but petrelton kept going. It was time to stop traditionalism won out as it always will and no hermeneutic of whatever can change that. :bronxcheer:
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(11-07-2009, 02:28 PM)Scipio_a Wrote: This is the difference between a guy like pElton, and a trad like Jovan
and there are similar examples for people who attend the SSPX, SSPV, and CMRI....those that tow the line to the absolute exclusion of any of the other groups...and cannot see the use that all the others are.
Sure there is a use for the SSPX, SSPV and CMRI. Just as there was a use for the Lutherans. God used the Lutherans to give the church a much-needed correction. As a result the reforming council of Trent occurred and restored the church. Therefore we can thank the Lutherans for their role in bringing correction to the church. The SSPX, SSPV and the CMRI also perform a valuable service to the church. They give the church a good old fashion whipping which it justly deserves. But does God love his son or the rod with which he corrects his son?

Once the son is corrected the rod is left on the shelf to gather dust. Eventually when its usefulness is utterly past it is thrown into the fire with not a moments care. Let's be son's of God and not rod's of God so that we may shine in righteousness on the last day.
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(11-09-2009, 07:42 PM)petrelton Wrote:
(11-07-2009, 02:28 PM)Scipio_a Wrote: This is the difference between a guy like pElton, and a trad like Jovan
and there are similar examples for people who attend the SSPX, SSPV, and CMRI....those that tow the line to the absolute exclusion of any of the other groups...and cannot see the use that all the others are.
Sure there is a use for the SSPX, SSPV and CMRI. Just as there was a use for the Lutherans. God used the Lutherans to give the church a much-needed correction. As a result the reforming council of Trent occurred and restored the church. Therefore we can thank the Lutherans for their role in bringing correction to the church. The SSPX, SSPV and the CMRI also perform a valuable service to the church. They give the church a good old fashion whipping which it justly deserves. But does God love his son or the rod with which he corrects his son?

Once the son is corrected the rod is left on the shelf to gather dust. Eventually when its usefulness is utterly past it is thrown into the fire with not a moments care. Let's be son's of God and not rod's of God so that we may shine in righteousness on the last day.

You compare the SSPX and other trads to Lutherans. You sir are a major asshole.
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There is more use for Lutharens then the NO, at least they admit their protestants.
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