'Miracle' as communion Host becomes heart tissue
#1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopi...issue.html

Quote:'Miracle' as communion wafer becomes heart tissue
The Catholic Church in Poland is investigating claims of a miracle after a piece of communion wafer was reported to have been transformed into human heart tissue after falling into water during a mass.


By Matthew Day in Warsaw
Published: 3:14PM GMT 29 Oct 2009

In an incident that has generated a storm of publicity in devout Poland, Professor Maria Sobaniec-Lotowaska, of the medical university in Bialystok, has dumbfounded sceptics by saying she considered the material found in the container as heart tissue.

But her findings have already been dismissed by other scientists. "The professor saw what she wanted to see.

She is very religious," said Prof Lech Chyczewski, a blood specialist. "In order to rule out any doubts, it would have been necessary to carry out molecular and genetic testing."

Pawel Grzesiowskia, a leading biologist from the National Medical Institute, has attributed the miracle to nothing more than bacteria growing on the small piece of wafer, which fell into a water container during a mass in the eastern village of Sokolka.

But this has failed to quell many believing that something miraculous took place. The Catholic Church said already ruled out the possibility of a hoax, and local police have said that there is no evidence of fraud.
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#2
Always quick to criticize. What will it take for a newspaper to finally say "No use pretending, it's a miracle"?
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#3
More interesting stuff.
There are a number of such occurrences in the past, but I've not heard of any post novus ordo.
It certainly deserves a closer look (by someone who knows how).
How  "it fell into water" would be a bit hard to imagine.
None of the other instances of this phenomenon required the addition of water that I have ever come across.
The N.O. church is not beyond trying to "legitimise" itself by apparent miracles... even to the extent of having John XXIII thouroughly embalmed,pickled and triple sealed in an inert atmosphere to make him appear incorruptible.
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#4
(11-02-2009, 12:00 AM)NonSumDignus Wrote: Always quick to criticize. What will it take for a newspaper to finally say "No use pretending, it's a miracle"?

That will never happen.
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#5
(11-02-2009, 12:54 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
(11-02-2009, 12:00 AM)NonSumDignus Wrote: Always quick to criticize. What will it take for a newspaper to finally say "No use pretending, it's a miracle"?

That will never happen.

That would be a miracle.
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#6
(11-02-2009, 12:18 AM)Oldavid Wrote: More interesting stuff.
There are a number of such occurrences in the past, but I've not heard of any post novus ordo.
It certainly deserves a closer look (by someone who knows how).
How  "it fell into water" would be a bit hard to imagine.
None of the other instances of this phenomenon required the addition of water that I have ever come across.
The N.O. church is not beyond trying to "legitimise" itself by apparent miracles... even to the extent of having John XXIII thouroughly embalmed,pickled and triple sealed in an inert atmosphere to make him appear incorruptible.

I have seen at NO's the Priest have the water that he uses to wash his hands sat on the alter for the remainder of the Mass. Thats all I can really see happening here I mean why the heck would it fall injto water.
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#7
(11-02-2009, 12:18 AM)Oldavid Wrote: More interesting stuff.
There are a number of such occurrences in the past, but I've not heard of any post novus ordo.
It certainly deserves a closer look (by someone who knows how).
How  "it fell into water" would be a bit hard to imagine.
None of the other instances of this phenomenon required the addition of water that I have ever come across.
The N.O. church is not beyond trying to "legitimise" itself by apparent miracles... even to the extent of having John XXIII thouroughly embalmed,pickled and triple sealed in an inert atmosphere to make him appear incorruptible.

http://breviarium.blogspot.com/2009/10/e...curia.html

The Host was dropped during Mass, and the priest placed It in water to dissolve It.

And can't we just rejoice of a miracle in the "Catholic Church"?  The past 40 years haven't been an age without miracles.  Hopefully, the results of the investigation do show that this isn't bacterial growth.

P.S.  Last time I checked, the official Vatican story was that John XXIII was embalmed (although they commented that his body is still fairly well preserved regardless).  The rumor that John XIII was incorruptible was started by the faithful who saw his body.
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#8
Hmm,
When I was an altar boy If even a noticeable speck of a Host was dropped the priest would consume It. I have even seen a priest with a notable fear (loathing) of bugs of any kind or sort (irish) consume the Precious Blood (including the fly that had drowned in It) and was heroically containing his revulsion for the duration of the Mass.
I was also present when a NO priest was giving Communion to some hospital residents and a fragment of the Host fell off and to the ground (carpet); he pushed it aside with his foot and I picked It up and consumed It (he nearly choked).
Ultimately; is It or is not.
Let's get serious about this Catholic stuff.
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#9
(11-02-2009, 12:54 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
(11-02-2009, 12:00 AM)NonSumDignus Wrote: Always quick to criticize. What will it take for a newspaper to finally say "No use pretending, it's a miracle"?

That will never happen.

Unless it's printed in the newspaper the "Catholic" printed on Papa Stronsay by the Transalpine Redemptorists lol
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#10
at the link MeaMaximaCulpa gave,
http://breviarium.blogspot.com/2009/10/e...curia.html
it says

"1. On 12 October 2008 a consecrated Host fell out of hands of priest distributing Holy Communion. He has picked It up and placed in the vasculum in tabernacle. After the Mass, vasculum with contents has been transferred to the safe in sacristy.

what's a vasculum?  botanists use vasculums for collecting plants but i never heard of a vasculum being in the tabernacle.  do they mean a ciborium?  calling all old altar boys. . .

2. On 19 October 2008 after opening the safe one could see a red stain on the Host, giving the impression of being the blood stain.

3. On 29 October 2008 the vessel with Host was transferred to the tabernacle in the chapel of the rectory. Next day The Host has been removed from the water and placed on the corporal in the tabernacle.

why was there water in the vasculum, whatever a vasculum is?  why would a priest put a Host in water?  why didn't it dissolve over a 17 day period if there was no miracle? 

4. On 7 January 2009 the sample from the Host has been taken and examined independently by two professionals in pathomorphology of Medical University in Bialystok. They have issued a common statement as follows: "the sample sent to assess (...) in our opinion (prof. Maria Sobaniec-Lotowska and prof. Stanislaw Sulkowski) looks like the myocardial tissue, at least of all the tissues of living organisms it most resembles."

unlike the newspaper, see how this says that two professionals in pathomorphology examined it independently, and the quote is that the sample from the Host "looks like the myocardial tissue, at least of all the tissues of living organisms it most resembles." 

the newspaper mentions only the woman professor and says she 'considered it to be myocardial tissue' but they're quoting incorrectly, she and her colleague said 'in our opinion' it 'looks like myocardial tissue, at least of all the tissues of living organisms it most resembles.' the two statements don't have the same meaning at all.  they were cautious not to say it was myocardial tissue, only that it looked like it

the profs who think it's just bacterial growth or that molecular and genetic testing should be done should volunteer to test it themselves.  put up or shut up.  pathomorphologists wouldn't do that sort of test, they do microscopic study of tissues.

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