Was surprised to find a Bishop saying mass today.
#21
Here is the Post-V2 catechism on purgatory - Seems like a traditional teaching to me.
III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607


As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:


Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611
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#22
(11-10-2009, 06:06 AM)petrelton Wrote: Here is the Post-V2 catechism on purgatory - Seems like a traditional teaching to me...

Maybe, but does that teaching get to reach the masses of Novus Ordo attenders for whom even the new Catechism is meaningless, if they've even heard of it.

Is it preached?
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#23
(11-10-2009, 12:21 PM)Clare Wrote:
(11-10-2009, 06:06 AM)petrelton Wrote: Here is the Post-V2 catechism on purgatory - Seems like a traditional teaching to me...

Maybe, but does that teaching get to reach the masses of Novus Ordo attenders for whom even the new Catechism is meaningless, if they've even heard of it.

Is it preached?
My point is that if the church and the V2 council was modernist to the core like many trads claim then this section would have been stripped out of the catechism or toned down drastically. The fact that in many places of the world purgatory is not mentioned in sermons is evidence that many areas of the world (in some cases entire nations) have become modernist but not evidence that the entire church ruled from Rome is modernist.
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#24
Clare Wrote:Is it preached?

I can only speak concerning my limited experience with "the Novus Ordo" lately. The answer is yes. The two parishes I frequent for Confession and to say the Divine Office both regularly cite the CCC in their bulletins, as does EWTN.
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#25
(11-10-2009, 05:52 PM)petrelton Wrote: My point is that if the church and the V2 council was modernist to the core like many trads claim then this section would have been stripped out of the catechism or toned down drastically. The fact that in many places of the world purgatory is not mentioned in sermons is evidence that many areas of the world (in some cases entire nations) have become modernist but not evidence that the entire church ruled from Rome is modernist.

One orthodox passage in the CCC does not make the whole CCC orthodox.

One modernist passage in the CCC undermines the whole CCC.

The CCC has modernism in it. Para 840 (IIRC) for example.
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#26
(11-10-2009, 12:21 PM)Clare Wrote:
(11-10-2009, 06:06 AM)petrelton Wrote: Here is the Post-V2 catechism on purgatory - Seems like a traditional teaching to me...

Maybe, but does that teaching get to reach the masses of Novus Ordo attenders for whom even the new Catechism is meaningless, if they've even heard of it.

Is it preached?

I converted into the Church via the Novus Ordo and RCIA, and we were taught about Purgatory in our classes. However, in my time attending Mass at that parish, I never heard anything about Purgatory in a sermon/homily. OTOH, the monthly parish bulletin always listed opportunities for indulgences in a little sidebar. So I guess my experience was that it was taught, but not emphasized.
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#27
One NO priest I know speaks of purgatory every All Souls day.  I went to a TLM by the same priest this year and there wasn't even a homily!  I was so disappointed!

As for Catholic funerals, I believe the NO is definitely lacking. In my experience, praying for the souls of the dead is never mentioned.

Where can I find some good materials for teaching my kids about purgatory?  BTW, I have also told my kids that while I try my best, I KNOW I will need purification in the next life and if they don't pray for me I will ask God for permission to come back and haunt them.. ;D

I also just discovered the Dies Irie (or however you spell it -I don't know my Latin!).  Why did they ever get rid of this!?  It is right and true and beautiful and powerful!  If everyone had to hear that on a semi-regular basis, perhaps people would have a sense of sin again!
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#28
(11-11-2009, 02:49 PM)SearchingCatholic Wrote: As for Catholic funerals, I believe the NO is definitely lacking.  When my father-in-law died, there never was a mention of praying for his soul, nor at my husband's grandmother's funeral. 

Funerals are a celebration of people's lives today.  ::)
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#29
(11-11-2009, 09:46 AM)Clare Wrote:
(11-10-2009, 05:52 PM)petrelton Wrote: My point is that if the church and the V2 council was modernist to the core like many trads claim then this section would have been stripped out of the catechism or toned down drastically. The fact that in many places of the world purgatory is not mentioned in sermons is evidence that many areas of the world (in some cases entire nations) have become modernist but not evidence that the entire church ruled from Rome is modernist.

One orthodox passage in the CCC does not make the whole CCC orthodox.

One modernist passage in the CCC undermines the whole CCC.

The CCC has modernism in it. Para 840 (IIRC) for example.
One so-called modernist passage in the CCC does not make the whole CCC modernist.

(11-11-2009, 09:46 AM)Clare Wrote: One modernist passage in the CCC undermines the whole CCC.
Incredible. So are you saying that if your priest teaches something which you perceive to be modernist then his whole authority as a priest is undermined.
Besides the catechism is absolutely packed with orthodox teaching. Not just one passage as you claim
To reject a priest or the catechism it would have to be far more than a trend towards modernism. It would have to be blatant and indisputable heresy like saying that Christ did not rise from the dead or he was not born of a virgin.

(11-11-2009, 09:46 AM)Clare Wrote: The CCC has modernism in it. Para 840 (IIRC) for example.
This is not heresy, nor is it modernist except by your own judgemental interpretation. It is a statement of objective fact. Both Jews and Christians are anticipating the advent of a messiah. How can this be modernist if its the truth?
Even if you do not agree with paragraph 840, this is not grounds to reject the entire book.
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#30
(11-11-2009, 02:49 PM)SearchingCatholic Wrote: I also just discovered the Dies Irie (or however you spell it -I don't know my Latin!).  Why did they ever get rid of this!?  It is right and true and beautiful and powerful!  If everyone had to hear that on a semi-regular basis, perhaps people would have a sense of sin again!

Well, the Dies Irae can still be sung in the NO, but you know how that is.
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