Attending Protestant Weddings
#41
(11-10-2009, 03:31 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: It depends on whose getting married. Is it two Protestants getting married in a Protestant wedding, or is one of them Catholic, ex-Catholic?

In cases of two Protestants getting married, the Church allows Catholics to go to their wedding and service, given that the Catholic only attends and does not take an active part in their false worship and religion.
A Catholic would not follow their gestures of worship. A Catholic sits down, but does not keel when they kneel, prays when they pray their prayers, or any other type of active participation.

I thought 'active participation' means they cannot have an active role (i.e. serving somehow in the service), but they can still follow the crowd (kneel, stand, sit, etc.) and, during prayers, they could just pray their own prayer silently . Obviously, it is a grave sin to receive "communion" at any Protestant service.
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#42
(11-10-2009, 06:30 PM)Beware_the_Ides Wrote: SaintRafael, you are mistaken.  Catholics may not attend non-Catholic weddings (or funerals or other worship services).  Not only may they not attend the wedding, they may not attend the reception nor send a gift.

"Passive or merely material presence can be tolerated for the sake of honor or civil office, for grave reason approved by the bishop in case of doubt, at the funerals, weddings, and similar solemnities of non-Catholics, provided danger of perversion and scandal is absent" (1917 Code of Canon Law, canon 1258; see also Fr. Heribert Jone, O.F.M. Cap., J.C.D., Moral Theology, sec. 126, p. 70: "Passive attendance at non-Catholic services is permissible for a good reason... Under these restrictions it is permissible to attend... a marriage... conducted in a non-Catholic church").

A Catholic who gets married before someone who is a not a priest (e.g., Protestant minister, a judge, the mayor, etc.), does not truly get married.
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#43
(11-26-2009, 11:24 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote:
(11-10-2009, 06:30 PM)Beware_the_Ides Wrote: SaintRafael, you are mistaken.  Catholics may not attend non-Catholic weddings (or funerals or other worship services).  Not only may they not attend the wedding, they may not attend the reception nor send a gift.

"Passive or merely material presence can be tolerated for the sake of honor or civil office, for grave reason approved by the bishop in case of doubt, at the funerals, weddings, and similar solemnities of non-Catholics, provided danger of perversion and scandal is absent" (1917 Code of Canon Law, canon 1258; see also Fr. Heribert Jone, O.F.M. Cap., J.C.D., Moral Theology, sec. 126, p. 70: "Passive attendance at non-Catholic services is permissible for a good reason... Under these restrictions it is permissible to attend... a marriage... conducted in a non-Catholic church").

I get that, not all marriages in Non Catholic churches are invalid. You still cannot attend a INVALID union.
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#44
(11-26-2009, 11:24 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: "Passive or merely material presence can be tolerated for the sake of honor or civil office, for grave reason approved by the bishop in case of doubt, at the funerals, weddings, and similar solemnities of non-Catholics, provided danger of perversion and scandal is absent" (1917 Code of Canon Law, canon 1258; see also Fr. Heribert Jone, O.F.M. Cap., J.C.D., Moral Theology, sec. 126, p. 70: "Passive attendance at non-Catholic services is permissible for a good reason... Under these restrictions it is permissible to attend... a marriage... conducted in a non-Catholic church").

A Catholic who gets married before someone who is a not a priest (e.g., Protestant minister, a judge, the mayor, etc.), does not truly get married.

Thanks for providing a reference.  However, the qualifiers in those statements are quite ambiguous, i.e., "...for the sake of honor...," and "...for a good reason..."  ???  Whose honor?  What constitutes "a good reason" and who gets to decide that?  I don't intend to shoot the messenger, just sayin'...
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#45
(11-26-2009, 11:06 PM)CanadianCatholic Wrote:
(11-26-2009, 10:52 PM)Beware_the_Ides Wrote:
(11-11-2009, 09:35 PM)CanadianCatholic Wrote: But you can love without accepting. Sometimes you have to make a strong stand for God. If you cant do the very least (not attending an invalid ceremony) then where are the lines? By being there, you are misleading them and others into thinking you , a Catholic, accept it. People are going to assume you do, unless you hold a billboard over your head explaining your views. And thats giving Catholicism a bad name, it looks hypocritical. My little sister is a lesbian, and I love her SO much. But I would and will NEVER allow any "partner" of hers in my house, or near my children. Nor would I EVER attend any kind of "marriage" she would try to enter. Its no different, in the long run, then an invalid marriage. Both are invalid, in the eyes of God. Would you attend a gay wedding, if it was a family member? Its really no different.

CC (and SaintRafael), I may be misunderstanding the teaching of the Church in my previous statement, but what I bolded is exactly my contention with your earlier rebuttal.  Whether it's a wedding of two non-Catholics or and invalid "Catholic" wedding, by your presence (as a Catholic) you give credence to heretics.  See what I mean?  I think VO got my point with his comment about the satanist wedding.

If its a valid marriage, theres nothing sinful happening, and you arent misleading anyone. They arent doing anything wrong by being ignorant of Gods truth. Unless they are being ignorant of it on purpose, but thats a whole other discussion...

CC, I'm really not trying to butt heads with you but please consider the contradiction in your statements. 
Quote:By being there, you are misleading them and others into thinking you , a Catholic, accept it.
  Would you have me believe that your statement is true in regards to an invalid ceremony and then not true for a (valid or invalid) non-Catholic  ceremony? 

My point is that one gives credence to another's religious beliefs by their presence at such ceremonies with the exception of special circumstances.  For example, I do property damage restoration and was tasked with restoring a Presbyterian church and school that had suffered heavy smoke damage  due to arson.  At the completion of this project, I and other members of my company were invited to attend their "homecoming" so that they could express their thanks and appreciation for the work that was done.  Over the course of the project, I had spoken to the pastor on many occasions and she knew I was, unapologetically, Catholic.  As uncomfortable as it made me to do so, I attended.  I realize it's self-serving for me to say so, but I'd like to think those circumstances fit into the acceptable parameters set forth in the above-referenced canon law.

I think we would find more opportunities to give evangelical witness by abstaining from attendance at such ceremonies.  We can still be friends with non-Catholics and when they ask why we will not be attending their wedding, a door is opened.  Of course, no matter how well worded your response, that may end the friendship.  So it goes...

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#46
If your not comfortable with the ceremony, invaild or not, then dont go. All im saying, is that if its NOT an invaid marriage, they are doing nothing sinful. Most people just do the JP thing anyways, and theres no religion to that at all.
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#47

I'm facing this very predicament now.  My daughter and her fiance will soon be married by a Protestant minister..  Both were baptized as Catholics but never received any other sacraments.  Neither were ever properly catechized and are completely ignorant of the Church's teachings.  In all honestly can it be said that either are Catholics or apostates?  One cannot be called a Catholic unless one practices the faith.  In my daughter's situation I'm not so sure that she is entering into an invalid union.

I make no excuses and take full responsibility for this grievous state of affairs. I was away from the Church for 30 years.  This whole situation has gnawed at my conscience and caused my terrible anxiety.  I blame myself for the poor job I did as a parent.  It is the greatest sorrow of my life that I didn't bring my children up in the faith and you can't even begin to imagine that anguish I feel at the thought that my own flesh and blood might be eternally lost all because of my negligence. 

Even though I was raised in a Catholic household and received the sacraments, I never knew the faith and the sacraments meant nothing to me. I remember my mother asking me what I wanted for my first holy communion, beads or a missal.  Being a little girl I chose beads.  I was heartbroken when the great day arrived and I received a rosary.  I though I was going to get a necklace, that's how ignorant I was of the Catholic faith.  My parents gave us very rudimentary instruction.  They taught us a few prayers such as the Our Father and Hail Mary and once in awhile they would take us to confession.  Looking back it was probably the once a year the obligatory Easter Duty confession.  I have no recollection of ever seeing a catechism or a child's guide to examination of conscience in the house.  We went to public schools and my mother signed us up for the once a week religious instruction at our parish Church.  I can say in all honesty that I never learned a darn thing from this religious instruction.  We did go to Mass on Sunday's and Holy day's because my father insisted that as long as we lived under his roof we had to go to Church.  In those days there only existed the Mass of all time and I really never knew what it was all about.

I do not have any feelings of rancor and neither do I judge my parents.  My mother's own mother was sick from the time she was five years and my father's mother died when he was thirteen from cancer.  She had been sick from the time he was about six years old.  His father worked on the railroad and was away from home a good portion of the week.  I can rightly be said that he was left orphaned a good share of the time.  Even though both my parents received Catholic educations I do not believe either of them truly knew the faith either.  I'm of the opinion that the task of teaching the children the faith is usually the domain of the mother and neither of my parents ever really had a mother. 

I've listened to the audio santo sermons entitled "On Human Respect" and "Fraternal Correction" which both touch on this subject.  Keep in mind that it was emphasized that if you find yourself in this predicament to discuss it with your parish priest.  These are pretty general sermons that might not apply to all cases.  I have discussed this predicament I find myself in with my parish priest and he had told me, go ahead and attend my daughters wedding because charity overrules all things.  If I refuse to attend I would only be putting a wedge between us could ruin possible any chance of giving witness to the beautiful truths of the Catholic faith.  Even Jesus ate and drank with sinners, thought he never gave approval to sin.

The world is a much different place today than what is was when these rules were first imposed by the Church during the Council of Trent.  Children in Catholic families back then would most likely have been thoroughly catechized in the faith and anyone who married outside the Church would have had complete knowledge that they were committing a mortal sin.  Often, that is not the case today.  Facts are facts and they cannot be disputed and it cannot be denied that the Chuch is in the greatest crisis of her life.  We need to consider the following information I found.  John Paul ll did issue guidance considering irregular marriages and I think we should respect them.  Even thought many on this forum are not great fans of his, he was after all the legimate pastor of the Church.

http://www.americancatholic.org/newslett...ac0604.asp

In 1981, Pope John Paul II issued­ an apostolic exhortation called On the Family. Among other items in this groundbreaking document, he outlined practical suggestions for pastors and pastoral leaders when dealing with couples not married "in the Church."

The pope cautioned that each situation should be examined case by case. He instructed pastors and pastoral leaders to make "tactful and respectful contact with the couples concerned and enlighten them patiently, correct them charitably and show them the witness of Christian family life in such a way as to smooth the path for them to regularize their situation."


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#48
A Catholic must never attend a protestant wedding and/or reception.
One reason is by attending we are in acceptance of that marriage/false religion. Not vocalized but implicit acceptance.
Reason two is offense to our Blessed Lady, Mother of God by attending. (Read a little bit about what the protestants think about The Blessed Virgin Mary.
Reason three: SCANDAL. If another Catholic sees you walk into a protestant church, protestant reunion (wedding service), it will create a scandal.(big or small), nonetheless, a scandal.
Remember the best way to teach is by example. By attending a false religion wedding, we are not setting the correct example for anyone. Especially our family.

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#49
http://frbillmurphy.com/Info/CATHOLIC%20...%20_2_.pdf

A commentary on the status of those ‘marrying
outside the Roman Catholic Church’: Issues of concern to
the faithful.

In marriage where one or both spouses are Catholic, it is useful to note
that these marriages are considered valid in the eyes of the Roman Catholic
authorities when they are performed in a Catholic church, in the presence of two
witnesses, and by an authorized priest. This external form (the priest and two
witnesses) is mandatory for a marriage to be considered valid in the eyes of the
Roman Catholic Church. This requirement arose in 1563 at the Council of Trent.
The intention of the rule is to bring order to the marriages of church members,
just as the civil requirements bring order to the marriages of all of society. Prior
to 1563 couples could marry each other, i.e. exchanged their consent, in private
without the necessity of witnesses. The obvious problem that arose is how do
you know who is married to whom. Someone could simply claim to be married to
you. So these new rules have been a good requirement,

In the same way that there is an external form to marriage, there is also an
“internal form” that is supplied by the spouses marrying. That internal form is the
intention to marry and the consent of each to be married to one another. The
consent is the pledge of faithfulness each spouse gives to the other. This pledge
of faithfulness gives rise to the respect and honor spouses gives each other in
their lives together. This is also the meaning of ‘unity’, frequently symbolized by
the unity candle at the wedding ceremony. It is this internal form that has always
made marriage a valid bond since the time of the ancient Greeks. This internal
form is still necessary in every marriage today regardless of the faith.

The external form was not a requirement for the universal church until
1907. It became law in the 1917 code of Canon Law and binding on all
Catholics. However, this canonical form is human law. It should be respected
and not be easily dismissed. However, when you bypass this requirement, your
marriage is not considered valid in the eyes of the church. In the eyes of God it
may be a valid marriage. Consequently, it will not be registered as a Catholic
marriage by the local Bishop (chancery office).

Father Bernard Haring (deceased), moral theologian of international
repute in the Catholic Church and counsel to the Bishops in the Second Vatican
Council expresses the moral principle that human, man-made law, does not bind
under pain of mortal sin. Although Father Haring does not apply this principle to
the marriage laws, a reasonable argument can be made to say that one does not
commit a mortal sin by not following the required external form of Roman
Catholic marriage,

Since it is the internal form, intention and consent, that makes a marriage,
it is difficult to say that in one’s conscience, or in the eyes of God, a valid
marriage does not exist regardless of form. One’s conscience is the most
important factor in any moral judgment according to the Catholic Church. The
supremacy of conscience has always been one of the most highly regarded
principles in Catholic theology. Based on this principle, a couple who exchange
their consent to marry each other could have a valid marriage in the eyes of God
even though the couple ignored the law requiring the external form.

There is another principle that may help you in understanding your status.
It is a clarification of our common expression “getting married by the priest, or the
rabbi, or the Minister, or the judge”. The Roman Catholic Church has always
recognized that it is not the priest who marries you. It is each spouse marrying
(giving consent) to the other. The priest, rabbi, minister, judge, officiates as the
society’s and religion’s officer. This emphasizes the necessity of consent
between spouses as the primary requirement for marriage.
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#50
(06-12-2011, 08:34 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote: A Catholic must never attend a protestant wedding and/or reception.
One reason is by attending we are in acceptance of that marriage/false religion. Not vocalized but implicit acceptance.
Reason two is offense to our Blessed Lady, Mother of God by attending. (Read a little bit about what the protestants think about The Blessed Virgin Mary.
Reason three: SCANDAL. If another Catholic sees you walk into a protestant church, protestant reunion (wedding service), it will create a scandal.(big or small), nonetheless, a scandal.
Remember the best way to teach is by example. By attending a false religion wedding, we are not setting the correct example for anyone. Especially our family.

You just contradicted the 1917 Code of Canon Law, which is as follows (copied from a post above):

Quote:"Passive or merely material presence can be tolerated for the sake of honor or civil office, for grave reason approved by the bishop in case of doubt, at the funerals, weddings, and similar solemnities of non-Catholics, provided danger of perversion and scandal is absent" (1917 Code of Canon Law, canon 1258; see also Fr. Heribert Jone, O.F.M. Cap., J.C.D., Moral Theology, sec. 126, p. 70: "Passive attendance at non-Catholic services is permissible for a good reason... Under these restrictions it is permissible to attend... a marriage... conducted in a non-Catholic church").
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