Does It Really Say That in the Talmud?
#41
(11-22-2009, 03:46 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Look not much else for us to say to u on this. If u belive the Holy Ghost uses false evil writings to sanctify people then ok. What do u want from us? U have been shown good examples. U just will belive what u want.
If u expect us to hold to ypour rubbish your sadly mistaken!
Bugger off now.

What an uncharitable and unwarranted post!
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#42
(11-23-2009, 05:24 AM)veritatem_dilexisti Wrote:
(11-21-2009, 07:43 PM)Arun Wrote: Um... do you trust the same Magisterium from which these writings came:

Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Au milieu des sollicitudes, On the Church and State in France (1892) :
It was these threatening calumnies [about the alleged desire of Christ and His followers to seize secular power] which drew from Pilate the sentence of death against Him whom he had repeatedly declared innocent. And the authors of these lies, or of others of equal strength, omitted nothing that would aid their emissaries in propagating them far and wide; and thus did St. Justin, martyr, rebuke the Jews of his time: “Far from repenting when you had learned of His resurrection from the dead, you sent to Jerusalem shrewdly chosen men to announce that a heresy and an impious sect had been started by a certain seducer called Jesus of Galilee” (Dialogue with Trypho).

Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Quartus Supra, On the Church in Armenia (1873) :
… It is also said that We have infringed upon the rights of the supreme emperor. This is a common calumny worn thin by the long use heretics have made of it. The Jews first invented it in opposition to Christ and God; then pagans very often used it not only before the Roman emperors and heretics, but even before Catholic princes…

The Bull Hebraeorum gens ("The Jewish Race") 1569, of Saint Pius V
"The Jewish people fell from the heights because of their faithlessness and condemned their Redeemer to a shameful death. Their godlessness has assumed such forms that, for the salvation of our own people, it becomes necessary to prevent their disease. Besides usury, through which Jews everywhere have sucked dry the property of impoverished Christians, they are accomplices of thieves and robbers; and the most damaging aspect of the matter is that they allure the unsuspecting through magical incantations, superstition, and witchcraft to the Synagogue of Satan and boast of being able to predict the future. We have carefully investigated how this revolting sect abuses the name of Christ and how harmful they are to those whose life is threatened by their deceit. On account of these and other serious matters, and because of the gravity of their crimes which increase day to day more and more, We order that, within 90 days, all Jews in our entire earthly realm of justice -- in all towns, districts, and places -- must depart these regions."

Also of note are;

Pope Innocent III  Etsi non displiceat, 1205
Pope Gregory IX Si Vera Sunt, 1239
Pope St Pius V Hebraeorum Gens, feb 26, 1569

Those are statements not of a doctrinal but of a historical nature, which do thus not appertain to the teaching authority of the Magisterium.

Sorry, I see what you mean there. whoops, lol. The quotes were for a different discussion. I was just meant to give you the titles of those documents, as they also contain a lot of pertinent information.

The Talmud itself was specifically condemned by Gregory IX in Si Vera Sunt, and again by Clement VIII in Cum Haebraeorum Malitia, among others. Unfortunately in the wake of V2 these teachings have been pushed to the back corner, and ignored, and it wasn't until i began investigating that i even found out abuot them.
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#43
(11-22-2009, 04:18 PM)Arun Wrote:
(11-22-2009, 03:42 PM)John92 Wrote:
(11-21-2009, 07:43 PM)Arun Wrote: Um... do you trust the same Magisterium from which these writings came:

Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Au milieu des sollicitudes, On the Church and State in France (1892) :
It was these threatening calumnies [about the alleged desire of Christ and His followers to seize secular power] which drew from Pilate the sentence of death against Him whom he had repeatedly declared innocent. And the authors of these lies, or of others of equal strength, omitted nothing that would aid their emissaries in propagating them far and wide; and thus did St. Justin, martyr, rebuke the Jews of his time: “Far from repenting when you had learned of His resurrection from the dead, you sent to Jerusalem shrewdly chosen men to announce that a heresy and an impious sect had been started by a certain seducer called Jesus of Galilee” (Dialogue with Trypho).

Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Quartus Supra, On the Church in Armenia (1873) :
… It is also said that We have infringed upon the rights of the supreme emperor. This is a common calumny worn thin by the long use heretics have made of it. The Jews first invented it in opposition to Christ and God; then pagans very often used it not only before the Roman emperors and heretics, but even before Catholic princes…

The Bull Hebraeorum gens ("The Jewish Race") 1569, of Saint Pius V
"The Jewish people fell from the heights because of their faithlessness and condemned their Redeemer to a shameful death. Their godlessness has assumed such forms that, for the salvation of our own people, it becomes necessary to prevent their disease. Besides usury, through which Jews everywhere have sucked dry the property of impoverished Christians, they are accomplices of thieves and robbers; and the most damaging aspect of the matter is that they allure the unsuspecting through magical incantations, superstition, and witchcraft to the Synagogue of Satan and boast of being able to predict the future. We have carefully investigated how this revolting sect abuses the name of Christ and how harmful they are to those whose life is threatened by their deceit. On account of these and other serious matters, and because of the gravity of their crimes which increase day to day more and more, We order that, within 90 days, all Jews in our entire earthly realm of justice -- in all towns, districts, and places -- must depart these regions."

Also of note are;

Pope Innocent III  Etsi non displiceat, 1205
Pope Gregory IX Si Vera Sunt, 1239
Pope St Pius V Hebraeorum Gens, feb 26, 1569

None of those contradict the idea that the Holy Spirit uses the similarities between Catholic and Pharisaical ethics to help their mislead, possible hell-bound participants become more Christ-like and, hopefully, someday lead them to the One True Church.

Most Jews opposed Christ and continue to do so, many Jews in the past and now exploit the poor with usury; you're not telling me anything new :P

The Ordinary Magisterium condemned the Talmud, though.

Yup, what's your point?  It also said that there are some "good christ-like" things in it too, and that these can be used to do good.
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#44
Ok then. So there is CHRIST like things in false religions.
Ok
What do u want us to saym go and use th talmid for CHRIST then. Go on now. Why push your bs on us?
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#45
(11-23-2009, 07:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Ok then. So there is CHRIST like things in false religions.
Ok
What do u want us to saym go and use th talmid for CHRIST then. Go on now. Why push your bs on us?

No need to get angry  ::)

If you look at Judaism and Buddhism and even Islam there *are* some "common aspects" shared with the True Religion, like selflessness, almsgiving, prayer, etc. etc.  I'm not saying that any of these religions are true, and it's quite possible that the vast majority of their practitioners are hell-bound (not those invincibly ignorant and free of mortal sin but only God knows how many fall under that), just that the Holy Spirit can use these "similarities" to make them more accepting of the True Faith.

You don't have to accept it, just sharing my opinion (and the current teaching of the Church).  I'm not trying to be confrontational.  You don't have to take my bs ;)
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#46
Clare Wrote:But a 4 year old rape victim can't?

I don't know, but one can see a similar parsing of age in Latin Christianity. A six year old who dies is considered to automatically be in heaven, whereas a seven year old, having achieved  the "age of reason," might well be in hellfire.
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#47
(11-23-2009, 04:37 PM)Arun Wrote: The Talmud itself was specifically condemned by Gregory IX in Si Vera Sunt, and again by Clement VIII in Cum Haebraeorum Malitia, among others. Unfortunately in the wake of V2 these teachings have been pushed to the back corner, and ignored, and it wasn't until i began investigating that i even found out abuot them.

(11-23-2009, 06:44 PM)John92 Wrote: Yup, what's your point?  It also said that there are some "good christ-like" things in it too, and that these can be used to do good.

when was the Talmud praised as containing Christ-like elements by the Magisterium?

The Talmud was ordered by the Magisterium to be destroyed and rejected, not embraced.
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#48
(11-24-2009, 05:09 AM)Credo Wrote:
Clare Wrote:But a 4 year old rape victim can't?

I don't know, but one can see a similar parsing of age in Latin Christianity. A six year old who dies is considered to automatically be in heaven, whereas a seven year old, having achieved  the "age of reason," might well be in hellfire.

The age of reason isn't a set number, so it doesn't apply. It is normally around 7.

And this is a different thing. It is an actual difference in the body (this age of reason is an actual developmental stage well studied) and it has a lot to do with the development of the will, therefore, it does matter. It isn't an arbitrary age.
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