Blessed JP2?
#21
(11-19-2009, 02:01 PM)CrusaderKing Wrote: The thing is, he shouldn't be Beatified, for any number of reasons. If they Beatifiy or Canonize him, they'll have to un-Beatify or un-Canonize many others.

You know, I was thinking along those lines just the other day.  I was thinking of all the Saints and Martyrs that are honored for having refused to bow down to idols or take part in un-Godly worship, and then thinking that a big part of JP2'spontificate involved doing exactly the opposite.  So which "saintly" example are people to follow? Do they resist worshipping with heretics and heathens, like so many of the saints and martyrs in the past are honored for having done, or do they join in such worsjip, as JP2 is apparently going to be honored for doing?

And people wonder why many Catholics these days are confused.

Blessings,
:pray:
Steve
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#22
(11-20-2009, 12:10 AM)Petertherock Wrote: While I wouldn't say JPII is definitely in Hell. I will let this picture speak for itself...

[Image: popefireDM1510_468x365.jpg]

That's really an asinine and disgusting thing to post...'tis one thing to disagree, but to pronounce Hell on someone...wow. Should I photoshop an image of +Williamson standing outside an Auschwitz gas chamber going, "No gas here"? In fact, wait a second, we could have him wearing a Nazi armband and telling all the men, women and children being led in not to worry.
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#23
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't care what happens.  If he is canonized then he's a saint and only a bunch of bitter old crabs could be mad at the Church recognizing someone who is in heaven.  We aren't going to make it there ourselves if we keep turning our nose up and making comments about how St. Peter will let any riff raff in these days.   And if he isn't a saint he'll never get canonized.  Seems about as stress free as things could get to me.
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#24
(11-20-2009, 01:17 AM)Walty Wrote: Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't care what happens.  If he is canonized then he's a saint and only a bunch of bitter old crabs could be mad at the Church recognizing someone who is in heaven.  We aren't going to make it there ourselves if we keep turning our nose up and making comments about how St. Peter will let any riff raff in these days.   And if he isn't a saint he'll never get canonized.  Seems about as stress free as things could get to me.

Amen. +1

What infuriates me is that it seems like there are some people who want him to suffer for all eternity in Hell and joke about it.
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#25
(11-20-2009, 01:10 AM)nsper7 Wrote:
(11-20-2009, 12:10 AM)Petertherock Wrote: While I wouldn't say JPII is definitely in Hell. I will let this picture speak for itself...

[Image: popefireDM1510_468x365.jpg]

That's really an asinine and disgusting thing to post...'tis one thing to disagree, but to pronounce Hell on someone...wow. Should I photoshop an image of +Williamson standing outside an Auschwitz gas chamber going, "No gas here"? In fact, wait a second, we could have him wearing a Nazi armband and telling all the men, women and children being led in not to worry.
Just a note, that's not a photoshop.  Some time after his death that picture was snapped at some gathering or another in Poland and people were claiming it was JPII reaching out from beyond the grave to tell everyone he was in heaven.  News stories put those two pictures next to each other for comparison.
But go ahead, I want to see your photochopping skill.
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#26
(11-20-2009, 01:24 AM)nsper7 Wrote: What infuriates me is that it seems like there are some people who want him to suffer for all eternity in Hell and joke about it.

I don't think anyone wants him to burn for eternity in hell.  What I do want is people to be realistic about his largely disastorous pontificate, and to look at the myriad of questionable actions he involved himself in.  I think that his beatification and canonisation would be cause great confusion amongst people trying sincerely to be good Catholics, in as much as it would hold him, and by extensions most of his actions as examples of holiness.  I'm not judging the man, but a lot of his actions are anything but an example of holiness.  Where he spends his eternity is not up to us, but whether or not he is help up as a public example of holiness and an example to follow is up to people here on earth.  I just pray that if they do insist on continuing his cause right now, they can at least do it properly.

Blessings,
:pray:
Steve
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#27
I agree with whoever said it that he could well be beatified but, because he was Pope and made some pretty bad mistakes, he won't be canonized for a long time coming. Just an opinion.
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#28
I for one am not making light of the fact that JPII could be in Hell. I am just making the point that his heretical teachings and heretical things he did makes the possibility very real. For the Vatican to Canonize someone like that would call into question all the post VII canonizations.

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#29
Well that doesn't mean anything. It wouyldn't call into question jack squat.
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#30
(11-20-2009, 12:10 AM)Petertherock Wrote: While I wouldn't say JPII is definitely in Hell. I will let this picture speak for itself...

[Image: popefireDM1510_468x365.jpg]

And isn't FIRE typically a symbol of the strength and power (or at least presence) of GOD? 

Recall, Dante had Hell as freezing.
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