The Vatican and the Lefebvrists: Not a Negotiation
#41
(11-19-2009, 10:09 PM)winoblue1 Wrote: I think Weigel doesn't know what he is talking about.
Yes the two sides are not equivalent, but the reason that the SSPX and the Vatican are discussing issues is because the critque proposed by the SSPX is an extreme embarassment to the Vatican.
It doesn't matter which side has more power --- it depends on which side has the truth.


An organization of 1000 million members and 400,000 priest about as much could be embarassed by an organization of about 100,000 member and 500 priest, like an elephant could be embarrassed by an ant,

Jesus Christ deposited the decision about truth with binding and loosing power to the hand of the Pope. We all can err, so we need Magisterium to know what is the truth.

The pope feel sorry for you, and for your confusion about the truth. The most basic Catholic truth is, that the depository of the truth is the Magisterium and not any individual, and you vehemently claim, that you are the depository of the truth, you are right, the Pope, vicar of Jesus Christ is wrong.

The most frightening is, that you never say what is wrong with pope Benedict, just yell empty words.

I can relate to Father Cekada, he is arguing, ant want to understand. You just deceive yourself  to believe that you and only you are the depository of the truth. The pharisee at least sat in Moses seat that was behind their lip service.

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#42
(11-19-2009, 11:18 PM)glgas Wrote: An organization of 1000 million members and 400,000 priest about as much could be embarassed by an organization of about 100,000 member and 500 priest, like an elephant could be embarrassed by an ant,

Jesus Christ deposited the decision about truth with binding and loosing power to the hand of the Pope. We all can err, so we need Magisterium to know what is the truth.

The pope feel sorry for you, and for your confusion about the truth. The most basic Catholic truth is, that the depository of the truth is the Magisterium and not any individual, and you vehemently claim, that you are the depository of the truth, you are right, the Pope, vicar of Jesus Christ is wrong.

The most frightening is, that you never say what is wrong with pope Benedict, just yell empty words.

I can relate to Father Cekada, he is arguing, ant want to understand. You just deceive yourself  to believe that you and only you are the depository of the truth. The pharisee at least sat in Moses seat that was behind their lip service.

First you got the numbers wrong....if there are a billion Catholics in the world....then where are they?  ....LOL

The SSPX certainly have more parishioners than 100k....more like 101k ;D

anyway...the modernists who know what's going on (unlike their drone army...you and petrolltron) are afraid of the SSPX  because with the SSPX...and +Thuc and +AdC-M the priesthood was maintained....without them you would have no priests at some point...this was the goal of the archmodernists....and their little army of automatons...and they lost....that is why they are afraid of the SSPX and did everything they could to subvert it...and think if they are sly now they will be able to get some agreement from them that will compromise them in the long run.

The funny thing is it probably won't work...if we're lucky as a race the Rosary Crusade will work and that will be the end of modernism


If it does work...the modernists will have a bastion they will not be able to trick...the sedeprivantists and sedevacantists...and the priesthood will continue....just outside publicly acknowledged Church structures....and the sedes won't care cause that's where they've been from the start of all this....no matter what happens...the official structure loses in the end...and true Catholicism will survive and triumph


As for the Pharisees...they still run the official structure...no change there.
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#43
Without Archbishop Lefebvre, Tradition would have continued until the end of time. Tradition depends on the existence of no man, however great he may have been. I am grateful to the Archbishop for doing the right thing, for taking a stand in the face of evil, for basically sacrificing his career and ultimately his life in defence of Tradition. But he would have known full well that Tradition, essential to the existence of the Church, would go on with him or without him. Tradition was not at risk. Souls were at risk. I believe he suffered terribly at the thought of so many souls that would slip off to the periphery of faith because of the evil of ecclesiastics.

As for Weigel, he is a unique character, and is emblematic of neo-Catholicism, but I think he is incapable of understanding especially 2 things: the hierarchical structure of the Church and the authority of tradition in the Church. This is why he writes and speaks like a man who feels he has a layman's duty to help steer the Church in the right direction, like a politician. All of this is sadly wasted energy. He does not get it. He is like an enthusiastic, recently converted protestant.
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#44
I don't get these guys like Weigel.  They treat SSPX like they are scum trying to undermine the Church, but they get all excited about ecumenism with the Anglicans.  The SSPX are validly ordained priests, the Anglicans were clear dissenters.  The Anglican thing is working out pretty well, but for some reason these guys hate the idea of talking to the SSPX.  What harm could come of it?  Oh yes, the SSPX being right about many things.  That would be terrible for Weigel and his lot.
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#45
(11-19-2009, 10:32 AM)JonW Wrote: http://www.archden.org/index.cfm/ID/2952

The SSPX has to agree to things that are not dogma?  That's how I read Weigel's interpretation.

"Does the SSPX accept that the age of altar-and-throne alliances, confessional states, and legally established Catholicism is over, and that the Catholic Church rejects the use of coercive state power on behalf of its truth claims?"

truth claims?  truth claims?!

Who is this guy, a Catholic theologian or a High School guidance counselor?

[Image: facepalm.jpg]

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#46
(11-20-2009, 11:26 PM)John92 Wrote: Who is this guy, a Catholic theologian or a High School guidance counselor?

Weigel?

He's just utter trash.
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#47
He was jpii the smalls foot stole. He wrote the tome witness to hope. Essential Notard porn over jpii the small.
He's a creep
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#48
I used to be a NOtard as well and worshipped Weigel...then I realized what he was, a fraud...along with many of the other NeoCon's prophets. Gag me. I'll never read his rubbish ever again.
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#49
(11-19-2009, 11:07 PM)Gerard Wrote: Just for fun, a comparison between Weigel's article and the recent articles by Chris Ferrara and John Salza show who is actually a writing substantive articles worth reading. 


http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives...a-sspx.htm


http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives...ussion.htm

I suspect Weigel does not want to admit that JPII and Paul VI were terrible Popes who did enormous damage to the faith and mislead millions of people (Weigel included.)

Thank you for posting these articles! I almost searched this particular board to see if anyone relayed the excellent article by Ferrara, What was all the fuss about? I just happened to read it 10 or 15 minutes ago before coming to this forum (which is basically my home on the Web, even though I mostly lurk while I'm here), and was going to search to see if anyone had already posted about it.

Anyway, I'm optimistic that the doctrinal issues are going to be jointly studied by Ecclesia Dei and the SSPX.

glgas,
Remember, St. Jerome once observed that the world woke up, and to its amazement, found itself Arian. Strength in numbers does equate to having the truth (argumentum ad populum).

Reading the social encyclicals of the pre-Vatican II Roman Pontiffs has been a serious wake-up call for me...

"The world has heard enough of the so-called 'rights of man.' Let it hear something of the rights of God" (Pope Leo XIII, Tametsi Futura Prospicientibus, n. 13, 1 November 1900).

:clap:
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#50
(11-22-2009, 02:34 AM)SouthpawLink Wrote: Anyway, I'm optimistic that the doctrinal issues are going to be jointly studied by Ecclesia Dei and the SSPX.

That Ecclesia Dei commission is going to have a lot of internal troubles I believe.  I think the SSPX is also going to be looking for duplicity on the part of Roman Churchmen outside of the committees who are going to undermine the discussions as much as possible.  Whether the discussions themselves happen or not is almost irrelevent  if they don't result in publicly correcting the errors that have been doing damage for decades.  And those corrections must have teeth in them, with consequences for those that deny the truth and embrace the error. 
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