The Vatican and the Lefebvrists: Not a Negotiation
#51
(11-19-2009, 11:18 PM)glgas Wrote:
(11-19-2009, 10:09 PM)winoblue1 Wrote: I think Weigel doesn't know what he is talking about.
Yes the two sides are not equivalent, but the reason that the SSPX and the Vatican are discussing issues is because the critque proposed by the SSPX is an extreme embarassment to the Vatican.
It doesn't matter which side has more power --- it depends on which side has the truth.


An organization of 1000 million members and 400,000 priest about as much could be embarassed by an organization of about 100,000 member and 500 priest, like an elephant could be embarrassed by an ant,

Jesus Christ deposited the decision about truth with binding and loosing power to the hand of the Pope. We all can err, so we need Magisterium to know what is the truth.

The pope feel sorry for you, and for your confusion about the truth. The most basic Catholic truth is, that the depository of the truth is the Magisterium and not any individual, and you vehemently claim, that you are the depository of the truth, you are right, the Pope, vicar of Jesus Christ is wrong.

The most frightening is, that you never say what is wrong with pope Benedict, just yell empty words.

I can relate to Father Cekada, he is arguing, ant want to understand. You just deceive yourself  to believe that you and only you are the depository of the truth. The pharisee at least sat in Moses seat that was behind their lip service.

The fact that the SSPX is small numerically is evidence to prove my point. Why do you think the Vatican even cares about a group of 500 priests, if as you say the are numerically insignificant?
It is because they represent a serious critique of the V2 NewChurch. They in fact simply represent the voices of the past Popes. Read the past papal encyclicals, especially those regarding social teachings, and you will be amazed at the 180 degree turnaround the Church has experienced. For an organization that is obliged to maintain its traditions this is a huge scandal.
Also anecdotally, back in the 1980's I was told by a priest that the SSPX critique was so influential that cardinals and bishops in Rome would hide their copies of SiSiNoNo (a SSPX journal) under their desks. The Priest was being tongue in cheek, but he was making a point, that there was and is a consistent sense of unease in the Church about the movement towards the world and away from Tradition in the Vatican.
(Just think of Cardinal Ratzinger's bizzare comment that advocating for the consecration of Russia, was "...an attempt at destabilzing the Roman curia."  (Ratzinger Report 1984) Now if that doesn't show that there is an internal conflict at the very top, i don't know what does.)
And finally remember the release of the book "From Ecumenism to Silent Apostacy"? Again it was a little book written and released by the insignificant SSPX, but it caused a world-wide storm that even ticked off the Holy Father, JP2 at the time. Because why? Because of the power of the ideas and the weight of the words, not due to numerical power and status.
One good thing about the Church is that She cares about the truth and not opinion. One lone man can cry from the roof tops and have an impact if he simply yells the truth.
I encourage those that think the SSPX is wrong to simply read their case. You will find it is nothing more than the voice of past popes struggling to be heard in the 21st Century.
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#52
when has the SSPX spoken with empty words? What is so wrong about making a strong critique of current practices in the Church that have had been just as strongly condemned just over a hundred years ago? Truth will in the end prevail...the SSPX can be down to 10 priests and still be able to make the truth heard (albeit uncomfortably) by those in Rome.
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#53
The pm with gigas is to him numbers mean truth.
So he says look only 500 priests of the sspx conmpared to all these NO religion priests surely the sspx is wrong.
This is a very modernist thought plm. Numbers dopnt make truth. The truth is the truth. Whether its popular or not. And frankly rarely is truth popular
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