Pope Pius VI and Communism
Dear FishEaters,
I recently found this transcript in a book and have been emailing it to those who I think might be interested.

The following document was found in the archives of the East German Stasi (Ministry for State Security) after the fall of the Berlin Wall. It may be perused on pages 45-52 of the 2009 publication "Spies in the Vatican: The Soviet Union's Cold War against the Catholic Church," by former Reagan advisor John O. Koehler.

At the time of the conversation, North and South Vietnam had recently signed a peace treaty in Paris. However, the Vietnamese Communists continued their offensive in the South. With the full support of Pope Paul VI, Richard Nixon continued removing American troops from the threatres of combat.

In my opinion, this document provides every bit as devastating an indictment of Modernism as the same Pontiff's tantrum while recieving Archbishop Lefebvre in audience. I hope you enjoy!
In the Immaculata,

Ministry for State Security
Department X                                                                    Berlin March 29, 1973
                                                                                            Log No. X/ 980/73
                                                                                      Translation from the Russian.
                                                                                            TOP SECRET!
Information from the Security Organs of the People's Republic of Poland.

Stenographic transcript of negotiations between the Paul VI and the Foreign Minister of South Vietnam, Tran Van Lam.

Vatican February 22, 1973.

Pope: I greet you Mr. Minister. May God bless you.

L: I thank Your Holiness. I have the honor to deliver a letter and greetings from our President, Mr. Van Thieu.

Pope: That is very kind of him. We are very thankful to President Thieu that he also thought of us. We must thank the merciful God that he has given us hope in these hours.

L: Your Holiness, we are very worried. WE feel ourselves as betrayed and abandoned. So many of our young people have perished for nothing.

Pope: Only God knows the value of self-sacrifice and not a single sacrifice offered to God will have been in vain.

L: Our people noe are experiencing hours of suffering. We became an object of barter in the hands of the great powers, and we believed that the United States was our friend.

Pope: This they are, Mr. Minister. When we can maintain the peace, then your sacrifices will not have been in vain. Please believe us...

L: For us this war has not yet ended.

Pope: Mr. Minister, you surely mean the struggle for a free and peaceful development of your wonderful people. Should that be so, then we share your fears and those of President Van Thieu. The important factor is to put an end to this fratricidal war, a war not only between the children of one and the same God, but of one and the same homeland as well.

L: But we are still fighting.

Pope: We know about that. We pray often to God that He spare the people who are so dear to our hearts, of further sacrifices and pain.

L: Mr. Nguyen Van Thieu instructed me to thenk Your Holiness for the help which during all these years You have provided us either  direct through the Papal Throne, or through representatives of various Catholic organizations.

Pope: We thank you. We wanted to do more, but unfortunately we are also dependant on the generousity of others.

L: Our Government entertains the hope that, in these difficult hours, it will not also be abandoned by the Catholic Church.

Pope: Our heart beats for you. We will never abandon you, but as you know, Our voice does not always find resonance.

L: However, in spite of all this, the diplomacy of the Papal Throne favors the agreement between the United States and the Government of Hanoi.

Pope: Yes, that is true. Inv arious circumastances, we gave you to understand that all the firing must cease. Those on the other side were your foes, but at the same time also your brothers. We told the same thing to Mr. Xuan Thuy [of North Vietnam].

L: We felt very disappointed, and it was for us a great surprise, when we heard that Your Holiness wished to receive this Communist.

Pope: We always receive all. This house is the House of God.

L: But they are the enemy of the Church and the enemy of all religions. They are the enemy of humanity.

Pope: We have nothing in common with their ideology, but we worry over the question of peace and the discontinuation of firing.

L: In our country we have almost one million of refugees from North Vietnam. In many cases they are Catholics and clergymen, who fled to us to escape Communist persecution.

Pope: This is well known to us. God values the good that you have done. Who knows, perhaps today's happenings are the days of God's mercifulness. Please believe us, believe us, that most importantly is the ceasefire.

L: But we already no longer feel safe from new Communist attacks.

Pope: Mr. Minister, God's mercifulness is unending. I beg you not to forget that times have changed.

L: Our Catholic Bishops also are full of fear and are worried.

Pope: We know that, Mr. Minister. But, look, it is necessary that one must trust in God in whose hands one must place one's self of his own free will.

L: But I am talking about politics, not Theology.

Pope: Yes, indeed. The Will of God shows itself in all spheres.

L: But we cannot simply give in to the Communists who occupy our Catholic soil.

Pope; We have provided you with help in every possible way. And despite that, we must jointly think about God's Will and bow to it even when it seems to us that things are not going well for us.

L: Does that mean that the Papal Throne will also forsake us?

Pope: What are you saying, Mr. Minister! We have already pulled together all of our resources in order to participate in the reconstruction of your glorious country.

L: But still, the help is for those from the North.

Pope: In your case the Papal Throne does not divide people according to borders. For us they are all children of a heavenly Father.

L: We are a people fighting for freedom.

Pope: That makes us very happy, Mr. Minister. WE wish to believe that it will help in freeing the political prisoners which are in your hands.

L: When it comes to that question, we have the best of intentions. However, the opponent has no political prisoners of ours since almost all were murdered.

Pope: A fratricidal war is the most horrible of all wars. Somebody has to make the beginning.

L: In a few days in Paris, I shall see the good will of our foe.

Pope: Mr. Minister, if you do all that depends on you, you will achieve peace and God's blessings.

L: But we are threatened by Communism.

Pope: According to your opinion, you have exactly the possibility to push ahead in with the question of neutralization of Vietnam, first in a divided then in a united Vietnam.

L: By the Communists? No!

Pope: We mean that such a process will be carried out by the sons of the Vietnamese people.

L: However, Your Holiness, we are of the opinion, that the decision on this question is, at this point, not even close.

Pope: The developments of the events will be shown. God will decide.

L: Before I travel to Paris, I wish to beg Your Holiness to excercise your great authority to influence Washington not to allow any Communist agreession against my country or the neighboring States.

Pope: Our staff maintains a steady contact with the staff of Richard Nixon. We believe that we have already used these means available to us.

L: Allow me to remark that you have already used these means in favor of our opponents.

Pope: For peace, Mr. Minister. Be so kind and relay to President Van Thieu our heartfelt best wishes and assure him of our fatherly understanding for the all of the Vietnamese people and for your State in the South.

L: I thank Your Holiness.

Pope: And we wish to also add out Apostolic Blessing for all those in Vietnam who expect justice, freedom, and a free dissemination of the truth.

L: I thank Your Holiness.

Some of Paul VI's replies are cynical.
Sadly this Pope despised those who fought against the Communism like some of his brothers in the purple: Card. Mindzenty, Card Slipyi. Many other will remain ignored forever bishops, priests and lay people assassinated with his complacency.
He already had secret contacts with the Communists under Pope Pius XII. When the obvious proof of this was given, Pius XII chased him away as bishop of Milano. Why did John XXIII made him a Cardinal only a few weeks after his election? Thus John XXIII himself despised Pius XII's instructions not to negotiate with the Communists and opened the way to Papacy to the worst Pope we ever had.
Knowingly or not there was a red spy in his circle in the person of jesuit Fr Alighiero Tondi SJ who provided the Soviets with the names of the priests the Vatican secretly sent beyond the Iron Curtain. All were arrested, tortured, killed or jailed straight to Gulag.
Anyway, once chased and excommunicated by Pius XII, Tondi married (with Paul VI's benediction) and even found again a job in the Vatican.
The same people who rewrote the History to accuse Pius XII, did so to accuse any pope.

The fact that one believes that his interest is to prove that any Pope, including Pope VI was wrong, is in the same side as the Communists.

Paul VI is well covered in the Vativcan.va site

People!  Quick, grab a nearby stick!  Any stick will do!  Beat Paul VI with it!!  He changed the Mass he must have been a COMMUNIST!!!!!!
(11-24-2009, 11:10 AM)Louis_Martin Wrote: People!  Quick, grab a nearby stick!  Any stick will do!  Beat Paul VI with it!!  He changed the Mass he must have been a COMMUNIST!!!!!!

YES there must be a reason that a Pope, the one bound by his own oath of coronation, that he would abuse his authority and pracitically forbid the Traditional Latin Mass, the mass of a thousand years or more, and replace it with an a committee inspired Protestantized love-in.

YES there certainly must be a reason for his ineffectual leadership and his facilitation of the worst crisis in Church history.....
(11-24-2009, 11:10 AM)Louis_Martin Wrote: People!  Quick, grab a nearby stick!  Any stick will do!  Beat Paul VI with it!!  He changed the Mass he must have been a COMMUNIST!!!!!!

He was one of the worst popes ever, regardless if was a communist himself or not. He did appease with them prior to Vatican II, we know that. It's only natural that he may have done so after his election. It's "curious" how communism, one of the worst ills of the last century, was never condemned by Vatican II, isn't it?
For an event that was to guage the signs of the times, the silence of Vatican II  on the scourage of communism is enough to condemn this council before all history.

These were the sentiments of Archbishop Lefebvre, and so they are mine as well.
How true!
(11-24-2009, 09:38 AM)glgas Wrote: The same people who rewrote the History to accuse Pius XII, did so to accuse any pope.

The fact that one believes that his interest is to prove that any Pope, including Pope VI was wrong, is in the same side as the Communists.

Paul VI is well covered in the Vativcan.va site


You are wrong.
The Vatican's Ost Politik began under Pope John XXIII who called VATICAN II council to speak about the great problems the Church actually was facing.
Oddly enough, the main problem for the Church in that period was the atheistic Communism, but pope John XXIII strictly forbade anyone to address the issue of Communism during the council. Thus the  council was strongly flawed in its premises.
Everybody knows that the Vatican Ost Politik was wrong from the beginning, but its attitude towards the communists never changed although the Communism is dying at least under the form we knew until now.
Paul VI proceeded in this way in an unprecedented manner. He was overtly favouring the Communism each time he could even at the price of abandonning our catholic brothers to the hands of their torturers.
The STASI document is odious to my ears. The Pope overtly helped the North Vietnam to overcome the South where the catholics were still free. Now the communism is ruling the whole country and the catholics are persecuted like they never were until now. Who can rejoice?
Why John Paul II who was so eager to make a lot of saints didn't he canonized Card. Mindzenty? Because this wasn't at all politically correct and yet it isn't.
Why John Paul II who so eagerly  apologized to the Jews didn't he apologized for the Church's attitude towards our catholic brothers of Vietnam, of Hungary, Russia, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Cuba, Cambodia, etc...?

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