Poll: Do you prefer the dialogue Mass?
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God and "Allah"
#11
I voted "no", but it's not that black and white.

I just taught a unit on Muhammad and the Muslims in the High School history course I teach. To be short and sweet: if we believe that the "God" the Arian heretics professed was the true God, then we must accept that the "God" the Mohammedan confess is the true God (worshiped and believed wrongly, but still the same Being). The Muslim religion is a mixture of Arianism and other pagan beliefs.

I voted no, because in my mind, if you reject the Trinity, then while you can have some correct ideas about God, you cannot actually believe in the true God which is defined by the Trinity, but it's really not just "yes" or "no".
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#12
(11-25-2009, 07:24 PM)Credo Wrote: Why is the word Allah in quotation marks? It is the proper Arabic word for the English God. Arabic-speaking Christians use the word Allah in their prayers.

Because God and "Allah" are not synonymous words. "Allah" is in quotes because it designates a word which communicates an association to Christians.

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#13
(11-25-2009, 07:56 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: I voted "no", but it's not that black and white.

I just taught a unit on Muhammad and the Muslims in the High School history course I teach. To be short and sweet: if we believe that the "God" the Arian heretics professed was the true God, then we must accept that the "God" the Mohammedan confess is the true God (worshiped and believed wrongly, but still the same Being). The Muslim religion is a mixture of Arianism and other pagan beliefs.

I voted no, because in my mind, if you reject the Trinity, then while you can have some correct ideas about God, you cannot actually believe in the true God which is defined by the Trinity, but it's really not just "yes" or "no".

Yes, I know it's not just "yes" or "no". I was looking more for thoughts concerning the answer you gave in your second paragraph.
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#14
I think it's a tricky question. The God who revealed himself to Abraham and Moses -- who the Muslims claim is the same God who revealed himself to Muhammad -- IS the one, true God. This is probably what Nostra Aetate means in its ambiguousness, and I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.

"Islam takes pleasure in linking itself" to Abraham, according to NA. But just because we share a common religious ancestry doesn't mean that Muslims' worship and concept of God isn't distorted. It is very distorted. They have no concept of the messianic Suffering Servant, no concept of God as Father, no concept of the Holy Spirit or the Trinity. So I had to vote no.
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#15
I apologize for not including the words "do not" in my original sentence: "...I would first like to make it known that I surface this topic for the sake of being controversial." This was very misleading because that was the exact opposite of my intention.

I meant to say: "...I would first like to make it known that I do not surface this topic for the sake of being controversial."

My post should now reflect the change...
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#16
(11-25-2009, 08:18 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: I think it's a tricky question. The God who revealed himself to Abraham and Moses -- who the Muslims claim is the same God who revealed himself to Muhammad -- IS the one, true God. This is probably what Nostra Aetate means in its ambiguousness, and I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.

"Islam takes pleasure in linking itself" to Abraham, according to NA. But just because we share a common religious ancestry doesn't mean that Muslims' worship and concept of God isn't distorted. It is very distorted. They have no concept of the messianic Suffering Servant, no concept of God as Father, no concept of the Holy Spirit or the Trinity. So I had to vote no.

Thank you for you post, your vote, and your comments about Nostra Aetate.
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#17
(11-25-2009, 07:24 PM)Credo Wrote: Why is the word Allah in quotation marks? It is the proper Arabic word for the English God. Arabic-speaking Christians use the word Allah in their prayers.

Credo, I think I see now what you were saying. Pardon my misunderstanding of your question.

I think you read the quotation marks as an indication of sarcasm on my part. I placed them there more for technical accuracy than for sarcasm (which would probably be read with a pause just before the word, a short breath, and then an exaggeration of the word - maybe even the "bunny ears" for effect). When I use quotation marks, I rarely ever use them to be sarcastic. I use to them to denote a word that is often applied to something (many times incorrectly) but doesn't necessarily mean what it is supposed to denote.
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#18
Btw I can't vote due to this damn blackberry
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#19
(11-25-2009, 09:03 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Btw I can't vote due to this damn blackberry

Ok, well do you have any PCs easily available to you from which you can vote?
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#20
the worst thing in that section of Nostra Aetate is the implication that it doesn't matter that muslims don't accept Jesus as Saviour, don't believe in the Trinity, yet are somehow worshipping the same God we are.  does Nostra Aetate make the same claim about jews?  all three religions trace their ancestry to abraham but the God each worships is different from the God the others worship, if we are to accept the word of Jesus, the Son of God, vs. the word of muhammad or the jewish claim that the Messiah has not yet come.

it's also troubling that Nostra Aetate doesn't mention that the koran contains many suras calling for killing infidels, by which they mean non-muslims, simply because they're not muslim.  apostates from islam are also to be killed.  

the Gospels don't call for Christians to kill non-Christians.  Christ told us to spread His word but He also told the disciples that when they went to a village where the message wasn't welcome, they should shake the dust from their sandals and move on.  His Kingdom isn't to be spread by killing or enslaving.  He didn't call for non-Christians to have to pay a special tax, as dhimmis do in muslim lands.

Jesus also set examples of forgiveness, stopping the stoning of the woman taken in adultery, talking to the woman at the well, healing the centurion's child, etc.  the koran says adulterers must be killed.  either the koran or the haditha, or both, teach that wives and daughters should be killed to protect family 'honour' for various 'transgressions,' including being victims of rape.  rapists are never killed, AFAIK.

maybe the realities of islamic belief were unknown to most Catholic clergy at the time of Vatican II.  they were certainly unknown to me then, at least i didn't know that the koran sanctioned such violence.  one would think that someone at the council would have read the koran, though.

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