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Dialogue Mass
#31
I prefer sung or solemn Masses, but if it's going to be low, then no dialogue.  In my opinion, dialogue Masses operate under the NO mentality of giving people something to do so they feel like they are participating more.  I think the low Mass can be useful in helping one come to a better understanding of how best to assist at Mass (i.e. internally uniting oneself to the sacrifice of the altar and not concentrating on externals). 

My old spiritual director made an excellent point when he told me that no one in history assisted at Mass better than Our Lady did at the foot of the cross, and she did so without saying a word.
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#32
(12-01-2009, 12:16 PM)Melkite Wrote: The NO is an aberration, but it can still be valid.  It doesn't mean it was a good thing.  Same with Low Masses.

If you deny the goodness of the Low Mass that you had to deny the daily Mass of every priest, which was in effect since the Church was free. The Mass is primarily for God and for provide the presence of Jesus Christ in the Earth, and only secondarily for the people.

As for the value or goodness any valid Mass is the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ is alway good thing (naturaly bad for the Adversary)
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#33
(11-30-2009, 09:50 PM)Petertherock Wrote: I think people need more silence, especially at Mass, but in out lives too...and that goes for me more than anyone else.

I really need to keep my keyboard silent more often.
While I believe this is true, culturally most of us are unaccustomed to silence and instinctually equate it with inactivity and nonparticipation.  So to all those who advocate the glory of silence, let them put their money where their mouths are, so to speak, and answer me this...

During these silent moments (silent Low Mass, the silent Canon, adoration, etc.), what nuts-and-bolts advice can you offer those raised on the notion of "active participation"?  Are there books or tracts you can suggest?  What resources would you offer children growing up in a culture that conditions their attention spans to eschew silence?  

If one speaks merely of "silence" in its vaguest and abstract terms, you may well end up with the faithful praying the rosary or other prayers during Mass.  (Think of it -- how many old missals have whole segments of "prayers during the Mass"?)  The temptation, for me, is to always be filling those silences with quiet or mental extemporaneous prayer, and while I doubt that I am alone, I do not think this is ideal.  How does one allow the silence to speak without sitting or kneeling in utter passivity?  
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#34
(12-01-2009, 01:44 PM)Miquelot Wrote:
(11-30-2009, 09:50 PM)Petertherock Wrote: I think people need more silence, especially at Mass, but in out lives too...and that goes for me more than anyone else.

I really need to keep my keyboard silent more often.
While I believe this is true, culturally most of us are unaccustomed to silence and instinctually equate it with inactivity and nonparticipation.  So to all those who advocate the glory of silence, let them put their money where their mouths are, so to speak, and answer me this...

During these silent moments (silent Low Mass, the silent Canon, adoration, etc.), what nuts-and-bolts advice can you offer those raised on the notion of "active participation"?  Are there books or tracts you can suggest?  What resources would you offer children growing up in a culture that conditions their attention spans to eschew silence?  

If one speaks merely of "silence" in its vaguest and abstract terms, you may well end up with the faithful praying the rosary or other prayers during Mass.  (Think of it -- how many old missals have whole segments of "prayers during the Mass"?)  The temptation, for me, is to always be filling those silences with quiet or mental extemporaneous prayer, and while I doubt that I am alone, I do not think this is ideal.  How does one allow the silence to speak without sitting or kneeling in utter passivity?  

Effective assistance at Mass does not require that you follow along word-for-word, and use of a Missal isn't even necessary (so long as you are familiar with the parts of the Mass).  The Mass is a sacrifice, a continual offering.  Each part of it may be regarded as an offering (even the readings).  We may unite ourselves with the intentions of the Church during each part.  During the Offertory, offer yourself in union with the offering of the sacrifice that is about to take place.  During the Canon, contemplate the invisible reality of what is taking place.  Imagine yourself at the foot of the cross, think about the suffering Our Lord endured to bring us this saving sacrifice, imagine nailing your heart to the foot of the cross so that you may be an offering to the Father in union with Jesus.

In my opinion, whatever allows you to grasp more fully the invisible realities at Mass and thereby more effectively unite yourself with Our Lord's sacrifice is the best way to assist at Mass.  Use of the Missal is not always involved.
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#35
(12-01-2009, 01:29 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: My old spiritual director made an excellent point when he told me that no one in history assisted at Mass better than Our Lady did at the foot of the cross, and she did so without saying a word.
beautiful comparison
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#36
(12-01-2009, 02:18 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(12-01-2009, 01:44 PM)Miquelot Wrote:
(11-30-2009, 09:50 PM)Petertherock Wrote: I think people need more silence, especially at Mass, but in out lives too...and that goes for me more than anyone else.

I really need to keep my keyboard silent more often.
While I believe this is true, culturally most of us are unaccustomed to silence and instinctually equate it with inactivity and nonparticipation.  So to all those who advocate the glory of silence, let them put their money where their mouths are, so to speak, and answer me this...

During these silent moments (silent Low Mass, the silent Canon, adoration, etc.), what nuts-and-bolts advice can you offer those raised on the notion of "active participation"?  Are there books or tracts you can suggest?  What resources would you offer children growing up in a culture that conditions their attention spans to eschew silence?  

If one speaks merely of "silence" in its vaguest and abstract terms, you may well end up with the faithful praying the rosary or other prayers during Mass.  (Think of it -- how many old missals have whole segments of "prayers during the Mass"?)  The temptation, for me, is to always be filling those silences with quiet or mental extemporaneous prayer, and while I doubt that I am alone, I do not think this is ideal.  How does one allow the silence to speak without sitting or kneeling in utter passivity?  

Effective assistance at Mass does not require that you follow along word-for-word, and use of a Missal isn't even necessary (so long as you are familiar with the parts of the Mass).  The Mass is a sacrifice, a continual offering.  Each part of it may be regarded as an offering (even the readings).  We may unite ourselves with the intentions of the Church during each part.  During the Offertory, offer yourself in union with the offering of the sacrifice that is about to take place.  During the Canon, contemplate the invisible reality of what is taking place.  Imagine yourself at the foot of the cross, think about the suffering Our Lord endured to bring us this saving sacrifice, imagine nailing your heart to the foot of the cross so that you may be an offering to the Father in union with Jesus.

In my opinion, whatever allows you to grasp more fully the invisible realities at Mass and thereby more effectively unite yourself with Our Lord's sacrifice is the best way to assist at Mass.  Use of the Missal is not always involved.

This is good and solid counsel about what to do during the Mass but, apart from the suggestion to visualize (which was a huge help and step for me back when I began doing this), not a primer on how to assist at Mass.  I hope this does not sound dismissive or ungrateful for the advice.  There are moments that I pray that just my physical presence demonstrates to Our Lord my assent of will, my participation, and my union, but I know full well that occupying a pew or kneeler is no guarantee of this. 

I understand there is no single way to accomplish this worship, but it is something you would think would be addressed more in this increasingly distracted culture.  It is sometimes, I think, assumed one knows by instinct how to hear and assist at Mass. 
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#37
(12-01-2009, 02:57 PM)Miquelot Wrote: This is good and solid counsel about what to do during the Mass but, apart from the suggestion to visualize (which was a huge help and step for me back when I began doing this), not a primer on how to assist at Mass.  I hope this does not sound dismissive or ungrateful for the advice.  There are moments that I pray that just my physical presence demonstrates to Our Lord my assent of will, my participation, and my union, but I know full well that occupying a pew or kneeler is no guarantee of this. 

I understand there is no single way to accomplish this worship, but it is something you would think would be addressed more in this increasingly distracted culture.  It is sometimes, I think, assumed one knows by instinct how to hear and assist at Mass. 

Start close to you. Pray to your Guardian Angel to send you a light.  Open yourself up to your Angel to teach you how to pray, how to participate, how to be silent, and how to gradually silence all the noise in your head.  Say the Rosary in a quiet church outside of Mass, that's a great way to increase your focus. 
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#38
(12-01-2009, 03:12 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(12-01-2009, 02:57 PM)Miquelot Wrote: This is good and solid counsel about what to do during the Mass but, apart from the suggestion to visualize (which was a huge help and step for me back when I began doing this), not a primer on how to assist at Mass.  I hope this does not sound dismissive or ungrateful for the advice.  There are moments that I pray that just my physical presence demonstrates to Our Lord my assent of will, my participation, and my union, but I know full well that occupying a pew or kneeler is no guarantee of this. 

I understand there is no single way to accomplish this worship, but it is something you would think would be addressed more in this increasingly distracted culture.  It is sometimes, I think, assumed one knows by instinct how to hear and assist at Mass. 

Start close to you. Pray to your Guardian Angel to send you a light.  Open yourself up to your Angel to teach you how to pray, how to participate, how to be silent, and how to gradually silence all the noise in your head.   Say the Rosary in a quiet church outside of Mass, that's a great way to increase your focus. 

Guardian Angel -- good notion.  That is a good phrase -- "silence all the noise in your head" -- but as for increased focus through praying the Rosary, I have enough difficulty focusing on the just the Rosary!  (As it is I prefer public over private recitation of the Rosary.) 
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#39
(12-01-2009, 02:18 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: imagine nailing your heart to the foot of the cross so that you may be an offering to the Father in union with Jesus.

Gross.
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#40
(12-01-2009, 03:35 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(12-01-2009, 02:18 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: imagine nailing your heart to the foot of the cross so that you may be an offering to the Father in union with Jesus.

Gross.

Oh please.  You don't have to be graphic in your imagination.
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