911 Truther
#1
I must confess that I have now become a "Truther".

Now, first what I don't believe.  I don't believe bombs were pre-planted at the WTC.  I believe that the towers were attacked by a Muslim terrorist group.  I have seen the effects of a jet fuel fire on steel, and a jet fuel fire supercharged with the winds at the 70th story will easily melt steel.  The jet fuel fire I witnessed was at sea level, and it completely melted I-beams and pipe.  No bombs were needed.

That being said, here is where the evidence leads me:

A group of Saudi muslims planned and executed 9-11.  However, the Mossad found out.  They didn't like the fact that is was mere Muslims, and not Palestinian Muslims.  So they took steps to implicate the Palestinians.  It goes without saying they didn't alrert their "allies".  Here is the evidence:
1.  Mossad agents were arrested who were filming 9-11 from New Jersey.  Shows they knew about it.  The agents were released and fled to Israel.
2.  The Jewish owner of the WTC took out terrorist insurance not long before 9-11.  Shows he was tipped off.
3.  There is a recording of a police officer describing a truck bomb that was detonated in the area.  The two drivers were captured.  What happened to the two drivers?  Were they also Mossad and then released?  The truck was described to have a painting of a plane crashing into a building on it.
4.  Someone called in a report that a truck bomb was going to be exploded at the Lincoln tunnel.  He mentioned "Palestinians".  The smart police sent cars to all the bridges, and found a truck bomb with Mossad agents in it at the George Washington bridge.  The agents were released and fled to Israel.
5.  This was investigated, and the report has been sealed.  There are leaks that Israel was heavily involved.

Now if you find truthers silly, please offer the explanation to these particular points.  If you are a Truther addict, please expand on what I have wrote.
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#2
How can we corroborate that any of those points are true and not pulled out of a Truther's bum?  Assuming it's true, who leaked the "sealed report" and how did they get access to it? 
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#3
(12-02-2009, 12:22 AM)James02 Wrote: I must confess that I have now become a "Truther".

Now, first what I don't believe.  I don't believe bombs were pre-planted at the WTC.  I believe that the towers were attacked by a Muslim terrorist group.  I have seen the effects of a jet fuel fire on steel, and a jet fuel fire supercharged with the winds at the 70th story will easily melt steel.  The jet fuel fire I witnessed was at sea level, and it completely melted I-beams and pipe.  No bombs were needed.

That being said, here is where the evidence leads me:

A group of Saudi muslims planned and executed 9-11.  However, the Mossad found out.  They didn't like the fact that is was mere Muslims, and not Palestinian Muslims.  So they took steps to implicate the Palestinians.  It goes without saying they didn't alrert their "allies".  Here is the evidence:
1.  Mossad agents were arrested who were filming 9-11 from New Jersey.  Shows they knew about it.  The agents were released and fled to Israel.
2.  The Jewish owner of the WTC took out terrorist insurance not long before 9-11.  Shows he was tipped off.
3.  There is a recording of a police officer describing a truck bomb that was detonated in the area.  The two drivers were captured.  What happened to the two drivers?  Were they also Mossad and then released?  The truck was described to have a painting of a plane crashing into a building on it.
4.  Someone called in a report that a truck bomb was going to be exploded at the Lincoln tunnel.  He mentioned "Palestinians".  The smart police sent cars to all the bridges, and found a truck bomb with Mossad agents in it at the George Washington bridge.  The agents were released and fled to Israel.
5.  This was investigated, and the report has been sealed.  There are leaks that Israel was heavily involved.

Now if you find truthers silly, please offer the explanation to these particular points.  If you are a Truther addict, please expand on what I have wrote.

Enough of this tired, half-baked, whacked-out conspiracy drivel!!!

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#4
:bubbles:  I'm so glad we're going to be hearing about this stuff from now until the end of time from some people ::)
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#5
Why would the mosad paint a pic of planes crashing into buildings on the side of the very truck they would use to bomb?
I dunno
Doesn't make any sense
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#6
Just one question James 02. How do you get the steel hotter than the transformation stage? Jet fuel burns around 1400 degrees. I have "hard turned" at 1450 degrees, the hardened steel does not melt. I have made poppet valves for submarines which operate at 1500 degrees and they do not melt. The faces of the valve is ground to 2 angstroms before and is not affected. I'm not wearing my tinfoil hat but I do wonder. Steels melts at 2750 degrees depending on the alloy. I'm a Machining guy but I think that in buildings they use  Carbon Steel non-alloyed with between 18-30 points of carbon. Disregard the Mossad or Bush or the Boy Scouts of America. How did it melt? "s all.
tim
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#7
Dunno.
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#8
(12-02-2009, 09:44 AM)timoose Wrote: Just one question James 02. How do you get the steel hotter than the transformation stage? Jet fuel burns around 1400 degrees. I have "hard turned" at 1450 degrees, the hardened steel does not melt. I have made poppet valves for submarines which operate at 1500 degrees and they do not melt. The faces of the valve is ground to 2 angstroms before and is not affected. I'm not wearing my tinfoil hat but I do wonder. Steels melts at 2750 degrees depending on the alloy. I'm a Machining guy but I think that in buildings they use  Carbon Steel non-alloyed with between 18-30 points of carbon. Disregard the Mossad or Bush or the Boy Scouts of America. How did it melt? "s all.
tim

Have you made a 100+ story building out of it, and crashed two planes into it, full of fuel? It isn't a matter of one factor! The buildings were made to withstand a plane crashing into them. They were made to resist fire. They were made to stand tall. It was a combination of factors.
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#9
(12-02-2009, 12:22 AM)James02 Wrote: 1.  Mossad agents were arrested who were filming 9-11 from New Jersey.  Shows they knew about it.  The agents were released and fled to Israel.
Everyone and their mother filmed it if they could.

Quote:2.  The Jewish owner of the WTC took out terrorist insurance not long before 9-11.  Shows he was tipped off.
Could it not have something to do with previous attacks or new information? That is quite a leap. This isn't a small warehouse you know.

Quote:3.  There is a recording of a police officer describing a truck bomb that was detonated in the area.  The two drivers were captured.  What happened to the two drivers?  Were they also Mossad and then released?  The truck was described to have a painting of a plane crashing into a building on it.
Where is the recording? As for that, in the chaos, police officers could make any mistakes. People are unreliable witnesses.

Quote:4.  Someone called in a report that a truck bomb was going to be exploded at the Lincoln tunnel.  He mentioned "Palestinians".  The smart police sent cars to all the bridges, and found a truck bomb with Mossad agents in it at the George Washington bridge.  The agents were released and fled to Israel.
Someone flew down in a spaceship and told me that uncited and unreliable information is
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#10
Carbon steel creep temperature is about 1100F.  After that, it loses strength very quickly.  1400F for a jet fuel fire is very low.  Maybe it is 1400 "C"?  As a quick guess, flame temperatures above 2400F is conservative.  I would have to look at the adiabatic flame temperature, but am too lazy.  I do know 1400 is wrong.

The steels you were working with must have been high chrome tool steels.  I remember one steel allow we were looking at in a pressure vessel lost strength rapidly above 950F.  I don't think you would spend the money for chrome steel for I beam.
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