Wherever I stand, I stand with Israel
#1
This line may be known to you as being someone's sig. Although it is from that sig, this thread isn't specifically about that person (so please don't get personal!) although that person may want to take part in this thread.

My question is what is the motivation of people with that attitude? I mean, Israel, a rather tiny part of the Middle East, seems overly in focus. Do people who support Israel pick sides on the Iran-Iraq War?  Do they support Kurds, Pashtuns or Parsis?

So, supporting Israel is probably more of a philosophical thing than just a political one. What is Israel which they support? A Jewish state in opposition to Muslim states? Are pro-Israel people more appropriately labeled "anti-Arab"?

I'm curious to what people actually associate with "Israel". I cannot see someone supporting all facets of Israel, unless they are actually one of the policy makers of Israel. So what is actually being supported?

State of Israel is a self described "Parliamentary republic" in the Middle East with a majority Jewish population which was formed in 14 May 1948 when "Israel" declared independence. Israel has grown to have lands it originally did not have. Note, that the formation of Israel was done by foreigners, in the UN. The UN partitioned the land into three main bodies, against the will of the Arabs who lived there. This foreign interference resulted in a "civil war" in 1947. So, all of the political goings on in Israel was not the will of the people who grew up there, but that of foreigners and it was enforced with the might of the foreigners. Some are alive who took part in these events, so it isn't ancient history.

The state of Israel had immigration policies designed to get Jews into the state to the exclusion of others (Law of Return). This policy, and the flag and emblem of the nation, show it to be a Jewish state, heavily favourable to what is Jewish.

EDIT: In short, what exactly does one "support" when they support "Israel"?
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#2
I guess probably my main reason for being in support of Israel is that I spent most of my childhood being picked on, without having anyone to turn to to get away from it or to stop it.  My dad never taught me to fight back, and my mom always told me the right thing to do was to turn the other cheek.  So, as I got older and wiser, I realized it was never going to stop unless I stopped it myself.  Unfortunately, I didn't learn that until recently, and instead of developing a way to resolve conflict rationally, I've kinda of learned to eradicate any danger as quickly as possible.  Coming from the mentality of "never again."  So I can completely understand why the Israelis have that attitude.  If you're entire existance, all you've ever experienced are people trying to hurt, maim and kill you, you just kind of develop a resolve where you are willing to flatten any opposition, no matter what their intention maybe, with no concern for who gets caught in the cross fire.  As long as you're not getting hurt, it doesn't matter what happens to anyone else.  No one else is going to look out for you, you have to do it all yourself.  At this point, I'm not saying the Israelis are right in having that mentality, just that I can understand where they are coming from.  As far as continuing to be supporting of Israelis, it's certainly not that I'm anti-Arab.  Afterall, half of my church is either Lebanese, Syrian or Palestinian.  I don't know enough about the Iran-Iraq war to have an opinion on it.  I still support Israel as opposed to the Palestinians because when Israel declared independence in 1948, it was only on land that was occupied by Jews.  All of the Arab occupied lands were included in the Arab state.  This, however, wasn't good enough for the Arabs, they wanted everything and were unwilling to compromise.  I'm sure this will bring up the question "Why should the Arabs have to compromise on their own land?" to which I would respond that Palestine hasn't been their land since the 15th century when the Ottomans conquered it.  The Jews that began moving to Palestine in the 19th century were given permission by the Ottoman government to settle there, so nothing illegal took place.  Then when the British took it over, they continued to allow a certain amount of Jewish immigration to Palestine.  Britain owned it, so the Jews wouldn't have had to ask Arab permission, but British.  Again, nothing illegal happened.  So, when Israel declared independence on Jewish occupied land, the Arabs got pissed off that they couldn't have it all, so 5 Arab nations that didn't have anything to do with Palestine other than common language and religion decided to invade the Jewish state.  And they lost.  So Israel rightfully annexed the land it conquered from the Arab state.  So far, still, nothing illegal on the part of the Israelis.  So their existance on the land is no offense to the Arabs other than what they erroneously perceive.  To say that Israel was established against the will of the Arabs living in the Arab portion of the land is much like saying the Virginians of modern Virginia proper were opposed to the cecession of West Virginia.  The people who actually lived in West Virginia wanted to be free, so the desires of eastern Virginians was entirely irrelevant.  I also am supportive of Israel because they are currently the only non-Muslim state in the Middle East.  All of the Holy Places are by far better protected by Israelis than the desecration they would receive if they were under Islamic control, which, historically, they DID receive when they were under Islamic control.
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#3
(12-07-2009, 05:42 PM)Melkite Wrote: To say that Israel was established against the will of the Arabs living in the Arab portion of the land is much like saying the Virginians of modern Virginia proper were opposed to the cecession of West Virginia.  The people who actually lived in West Virginia wanted to be free, so the desires of eastern Virginians was entirely irrelevant. 

So you support a Palestinian State?  That would be the logical conclusion if you want to uphold the principle of self-determination you just described.
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#4
Wow what an overdose orf rabid zionist propoganda.
Phew I need a drink before I pick this apart. Mmmmm maybe ill have me.a king david hotel
Sip
Hear its a blast
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#5
What's so special about Israel anyway?

Wherever I stand, I stand with Mongolia!  Ulaan-Bator Forever!
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#6
(12-07-2009, 06:31 PM)Stephanos Wrote: What's so special about Israel anyway?

Wherever I stand, I stand with Mongolia!  Ulaan-Bator Forever!

Seriously...let me get into some Mongolian pride.  At least they conquered half the world.  Plus, they make some good barbecue!
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#7
Not to mention reall really out there tunes. Have u ever heard mongolian nomad music?
Wild just wild trust me.
Yurts stink though ithey do real bad
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#8
(12-07-2009, 06:21 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(12-07-2009, 05:42 PM)Melkite Wrote: To say that Israel was established against the will of the Arabs living in the Arab portion of the land is much like saying the Virginians of modern Virginia proper were opposed to the cecession of West Virginia.  The people who actually lived in West Virginia wanted to be free, so the desires of eastern Virginians was entirely irrelevant. 

So you support a Palestinian State?  That would be the logical conclusion if you want to uphold the principle of self-determination you just described.

Sure.  I have no desire to see Israel invade and annex the Kingdom of Jordan.  But, seriously, yeah, there's no reason for Israel to continue occupying the West Bank.  I'd have no problem seeing the West Bank go back to being Jordanian territory.  As long as East Jerusalem remains in Israeli control.  The Church of the Holy Resurrection can never be desecrated again.
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#9
(12-07-2009, 07:28 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Not to mention reall really out there tunes. Have u ever heard mongolian nomad music?
Wild just wild trust me.
Yurts stink though ithey do real bad

If you have heard Mongolian nomad music, you have reached a level of culture beyond my wildest dreams.
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#10
I have heard mongolian nomad music.
Sip
I have stood in a yurt
Sip
It stank worse then I could imagine
Sip
They are crafty though the women uhm uhm
I was told they were women anyway
Sip
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