Wherever I stand, I stand with Israel
#11
(12-07-2009, 08:04 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: They are crafty though the women uhm uhm
I was told they were women anyway
Sip
They seem pretty distinct:

[Image: Mongoliangirl.jpg]

[Image: Asashoryu.jpg]
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#12
(12-07-2009, 05:42 PM)Melkite Wrote: I guess probably my main reason for being in support of Israel is that I spent most of my childhood being picked on, without having anyone to turn to to get away from it or to stop it.  My dad never taught me to fight back, and my mom always told me the right thing to do was to turn the other cheek.  So, as I got older and wiser, I realized it was never going to stop unless I stopped it myself.  Unfortunately, I didn't learn that until recently, and instead of developing a way to resolve conflict rationally, I've kinda of learned to eradicate any danger as quickly as possible.  Coming from the mentality of "never again."  So I can completely understand why the Israelis have that attitude.  If you're entire existance, all you've ever experienced are people trying to hurt, maim and kill you, you just kind of develop a resolve where you are willing to flatten any opposition, no matter what their intention maybe, with no concern for who gets caught in the cross fire. 
I see, however, the Israeli people went there, so it isn't like they have an excuse. So it is a "it all started when he hit me back" kind of deal. Justify the initial violence, and you can say it is defense. The Jews in Israel had it good elsewhere except for the ones in Nazi territory. Imagine if Buddhists or Jains suddenly decided they need to a homeland of their own and decided to kick people out? They are good where they are. The Jews here do not have problems, they are certainly better off than going to a foreign land where military service is mandatory and the taxes are extreme due to the need for "defense" budgets. No, the people who made Israel did so with racism. I am mostly Irish, but I do not feel a need to be around only other Irish people only. So the Jews who lived all over the world decided they needed to leave their good lives to be with others like themselves only? How degrading to everyone else. I don't see how that mentality could be supported. They complain of ghettos then make the largest ghetto in the world, an entire nation for Jews. They can live like everyone else if they wished you know.

Quote:I still support Israel as opposed to the Palestinians because when Israel declared independence in 1948, it was only on land that was occupied by Jews.  All of the Arab occupied lands were included in the Arab state.  This, however, wasn't good enough for the Arabs, they wanted everything and were unwilling to compromise. 
What do you mean?! Those Jews were foreigners! Those Arabs grew up there! Suddenly the UN (mostly Britain) decides to split up the land, of course the people who live there will not agree!

You basically say the Arabs should have agreed to give their land to the foreigners, and they were unwilling to compromise. How would you feel if someone took one third of your things? Would you think that is a good compromise?

Quote: I'm sure this will bring up the question "Why should the Arabs have to compromise on their own land?" to which I would respond that Palestine hasn't been their land since the 15th century when the Ottomans conquered it.  The Jews that began moving to Palestine in the 19th century were given permission by the Ottoman government to settle there, so nothing illegal took place.  Then when the British took it over, they continued to allow a certain amount of Jewish immigration to Palestine.  Britain owned it, so the Jews wouldn't have had to ask Arab permission, but British.  Again, nothing illegal happened. 
Except that a minority population suddenly is 90% of the population...

Quote:So, when Israel declared independence on Jewish occupied land, the Arabs got pissed off that they couldn't have it all, so 5 Arab nations that didn't have anything to do with Palestine other than common language and religion decided to invade the Jewish state. 
Oh yes, it is the Arabs' fault. They have new neighbours which they accept, but when that neighbhour decides to claim ownership, things are bad...

Quote: And they lost. 
Because of the Jews being supplied with men and equipment by foreigners.

Quote: So Israel rightfully annexed the land it conquered from the Arab state. 
And slaughtered and evicted those in the way.

Quote: So far, still, nothing illegal on the part of the Israelis. 
Of course not! Not them, no, never them. If this happened with any one else, racism would be mentioned first. I mean, the Kurds can't even get their own nation and there is much more justification for it, but a bunch of Jews can take over a land rightfully...

Quote: I also am supportive of Israel because they are currently the only non-Muslim state in the Middle East. 
And they are the only Jewish state...

How is this better?

Quote: All of the Holy Places are by far better protected by Israelis than the desecration they would receive if they were under Islamic control, which, historically, they DID receive when they were under Islamic control.
Places are places, but the people...

The people are not important I guess.

Now that  I know, I am sickened.
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#13
(12-07-2009, 05:42 PM)Melkite Wrote: I guess probably my main reason for being in support of Israel is that I spent most of my childhood being picked on, without having anyone to turn to to get away from it or to stop it.  My dad never taught me to fight back, and my mom always told me the right thing to do was to turn the other cheek.  So, as I got older and wiser, I realized it was never going to stop unless I stopped it myself.  Unfortunately, I didn't learn that until recently, and instead of developing a way to resolve conflict rationally, I've kinda of learned to eradicate any danger as quickly as possible.  Coming from the mentality of "never again."  So I can completely understand why the Israelis have that attitude. 

Congratulations! That's the most ridiculous reason I have yet heard for why we should support Israel.

I feel for you if you were bullied as a kid, but I don't see the connection to victims of bullying and Israel/Jews. I would think you would side against them since they are the ultimate bullies. It seems you've bought into their version of history as eternal victims of gentile malevolence.
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#14
rosarium, i'm typing this on my phone so i can't give you a full response now, that will have to wait till tomorrow, but, man, you've have GOT to reread your history, there are so many errors in your understanding of the events that took place.
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#15
(12-08-2009, 12:49 AM)Melkite Wrote: rosarium, i'm typing this on my phone so i can't give you a full response now, that will have to wait till tomorrow, but, man, you've have GOT to reread your history, there are so many errors in your understanding of the events that took place.

I did read my history. I know is the Britain (a heretical monarchy) decided to create a state on existing occupied land for a single religious group.

While I am not saying it was all fun and games before, or even desirable, the creation of the state of Israel was not good. History aside, the continuing flaunting of the rights of others, even until death, by the Israel death machine is enough to protest it. I mean, how many spies try to justify themselves by saying "it's ok, it was for Israel" and expect people to accept it?
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#16
"Britain (a heretical monarchy) decided to create a state on existing occupied land for a single religious group." 

Occupied land?  Wait a minute.  I know my history, too, and I could have sworn that whole Zionist thing was about creating a state from "a land without a people for a people without a land."  All the Arabs just moved after the fact, because the talented Jews created such a wealthy society (let's disregard for a moment all the forcible transfers of wealth from German and American taxpayers to make that society wealthy) that the covetous Arabs wanted their cut.  That's when the troubles began.  The Zionists were just trying to get along with their neighbors, but their neighbors refused to get along with them. 

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
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#17
See anamchara we both find this wickedly funny
LOL
No pun intended
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#18
(12-07-2009, 08:04 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: I have heard mongolian nomad music.
Sip
I have stood in a yurt
Sip
It stank worse then I could imagine
Sip
They are crafty though the women uhm uhm
I was told they were women anyway
Sip

hah hahah hah hahha  :laughing:
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#19
(12-07-2009, 08:30 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
Quote:I still support Israel as opposed to the Palestinians because when Israel declared independence in 1948, it was only on land that was occupied by Jews.  All of the Arab occupied lands were included in the Arab state.  This, however, wasn't good enough for the Arabs, they wanted everything and were unwilling to compromise. 
What do you mean?! Those Jews were foreigners! Those Arabs grew up there! Suddenly the UN (mostly Britain) decides to split up the land, of course the people who live there will not agree!

You basically say the Arabs should have agreed to give their land to the foreigners, and they were unwilling to compromise. How would you feel if someone took one third of your things? Would you think that is a good compromise?

Um, a lot of those Jews were born and raised there!  Do you think they just all moved in in 1948?

Quote:
Quote:So Israel rightfully annexed the land it conquered from the Arab state.
And slaughtered and evicted those in the way.

Good lord, what slaughter are you talking about?  You know, the Galilee is still loaded with Melkite Catholics.  Alot of those areas are still solidly Arab.  I had a friend who is an Israeli Arab Melkite.  He got along great with Israeli Jews and said most of his Arab family and friends did as well.  And more importantly, that they were treated well by the Jews, not as second class citizens like the Israeli Apartheid crowd would have you believe.  They weren't slaughtered and evicted by these supposedly racist Zionists.  Why not?

Quote:
Quote:All of the Holy Places are by far better protected by Israelis than the desecration they would receive if they were under Islamic control, which, historically, they DID receive when they were under Islamic control.
Places are places, but the people...

The people are not important I guess.

Umm, Crusades much?  When the Crusaders went into the Holy Land and killed all the Muslims living there in order to liberate the Holy places, where was the concern for the poor, innocent Palestinians then?  Just not as important as the places I guess.  So it's ok for Catholics to slaughter Muslims, but if Jews do so it's repugnant?  You're a hypocrite.
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#20
Melkite?
Crusades? Really?
Whats next Gallileo
Infant Graveyards from unwanted nun Pregnancys...
Keeping the bible from the people....
is there any anti-catholic history I missed for you to level at us?
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