Wherever I stand, I stand with Israel
#31
(12-08-2009, 01:10 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 12:38 PM)Rosarium Wrote: You are trolling I think. Your reasons for supporting Israel are weak. I understand their mentality too: all people who do what they do think they are justified. So what? We are (supposed to be) Catholics, and should be able to discern right from wrong.

I agree.  This guy just doesn't seem genuine.  He uses his defense of Israel as an occasion to attack Roman Catholics.  Very strange behavior for a Catholic of any rite.

When did I attack the Roman Catholic Church?
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#32
(12-08-2009, 01:57 PM)Rosarium Wrote: You repeatedly bring up other topics besides the ones at hand, and if they are ignored, you try again, and if they are destroyed (as they usually are), you throw down another off topic issue. Why can you not stay focused on Israel? You are somewhat clever, as it is mildly effective in being distracting, but it isn't working; you have to address the topic. If you are not trolling or have some hidden motive, you are doing a very good impression of it.

[i]Ok, so I can't use a like situation from another topic to show precedent?  So, let me just make sure we're on the same page here.  I can only talk about Israel and what's going either now or in recent memory in Israel.  If I want to make a point, I can only use the facts about Israel to argue my point.  I can't use a similar situation from another topic to establish precedent elsewhere, even if that point shows that what Israel has done has been done before and was deemed acceptable by the international community in relatively similar circumstances.  So, basically, argue for why Israel is not an evil, bloodthirsty nation, but if I have a point that is logical, that can't be taken into account because it shows the Jews actually AREN'T pure evil.  Only argue the facts, unless the facts contradict what you want to believe, right?[/i]



The reason not to bring up the crusades is because the are not the topic. You keep throwing down other issues instead of the one at hand. Stop it.

[i]I've only been bringing up other topics if I thought they were relevant to prove a point.[/i]

About Israel, what exactly do you support and why? Don't try to sidetrack the issue, bring up other issues, make personal attacks or talk about your childhood.

[i]I already explained it in the first post.[/i]
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#33
(12-08-2009, 02:38 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 01:10 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 12:38 PM)Rosarium Wrote: You are trolling I think. Your reasons for supporting Israel are weak. I understand their mentality too: all people who do what they do think they are justified. So what? We are (supposed to be) Catholics, and should be able to discern right from wrong.

I agree.  This guy just doesn't seem genuine.  He uses his defense of Israel as an occasion to attack Roman Catholics.  Very strange behavior for a Catholic of any rite.

When did I attack the Roman Catholic Church?

I said "Roman Catholics."  See above.
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#34
(12-08-2009, 03:17 PM)Melkite Wrote: [i]Ok, so I can't use a like situation from another topic to show precedent?  So, let me just make sure we're on the same page here.  I can only talk about Israel and what's going either now or in recent memory in Israel.  If I want to make a point, I can only use the facts about Israel to argue my point.  I can't use a similar situation from another topic to establish precedent elsewhere, even if that point shows that what Israel has done has been done before and was deemed acceptable by the international community in relatively similar circumstances.  So, basically, argue for why Israel is not an evil, bloodthirsty nation, but if I have a point that is logical, that can't be taken into account because it shows the Jews actually AREN'T pure evil.  Only argue the facts, unless the facts contradict what you want to believe, right?[/i]
You see?

You keep bring up other topics and making it about the other person. You have a chance to explain your point of view, not to question others. You keep bring up different things and pretending like you "won".

This has nothing to do with being "pure evil" or even just Jews. That is another red herring of yours. This is about the state of Israel and its government and armed forces.

Quote:[i]I already explained it in the first post.[/i]

It was woefully inadequate and you only said you understand why they are doing it, which isn't a reason to defend it at all. I understand why a person may commit a murder, I understand why people lie and cheat. I understand why people commit sins. However, understanding does not mean I support it in any way.
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#35
(12-08-2009, 03:46 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 03:17 PM)Melkite Wrote: [i]Ok, so I can't use a like situation from another topic to show precedent?  So, let me just make sure we're on the same page here.  I can only talk about Israel and what's going either now or in recent memory in Israel.  If I want to make a point, I can only use the facts about Israel to argue my point.  I can't use a similar situation from another topic to establish precedent elsewhere, even if that point shows that what Israel has done has been done before and was deemed acceptable by the international community in relatively similar circumstances.  So, basically, argue for why Israel is not an evil, bloodthirsty nation, but if I have a point that is logical, that can't be taken into account because it shows the Jews actually AREN'T pure evil.  Only argue the facts, unless the facts contradict what you want to believe, right?[/i]
You see?

You keep bring up other topics and making it about the other person. You have a chance to explain your point of view, not to question others. You keep bring up different things and pretending like you "won".

This has nothing to do with being "pure evil" or even just Jews. That is another red herring of yours. This is about the state of Israel and its government and armed forces.

Quote:[i]I already explained it in the first post.[/i]

It was woefully inadequate and you only said you understand why they are doing it, which isn't a reason to defend it at all. I understand why a person may commit a murder, I understand why people lie and cheat. I understand why people commit sins. However, understanding does not mean I support it in any way.

Then you need to go back and reread it.  I first gave the reason why I understood their position, and then afterwards explained the historical factors why Israel has done nothing wrong, or, at least, nothing wrong in acquiring the land it has acquired.
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#36
(12-08-2009, 03:36 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 02:38 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 01:10 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 12:38 PM)Rosarium Wrote: You are trolling I think. Your reasons for supporting Israel are weak. I understand their mentality too: all people who do what they do think they are justified. So what? We are (supposed to be) Catholics, and should be able to discern right from wrong.

I agree.  This guy just doesn't seem genuine.  He uses his defense of Israel as an occasion to attack Roman Catholics.  Very strange behavior for a Catholic of any rite.

When did I attack the Roman Catholic Church?

I said "Roman Catholics."  See above.

I looked back over this whole thread and don't see where I attacked Roman Cathoilcs.  Is there something specific you're referring to?  Also, Rosarium, is rbj doing the same kind of diverting off the topic that I'm not allowed to do?
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#37
(12-08-2009, 05:02 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 03:36 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 02:38 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 01:10 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(12-08-2009, 12:38 PM)Rosarium Wrote: You are trolling I think. Your reasons for supporting Israel are weak. I understand their mentality too: all people who do what they do think they are justified. So what? We are (supposed to be) Catholics, and should be able to discern right from wrong.

I agree.  This guy just doesn't seem genuine.  He uses his defense of Israel as an occasion to attack Roman Catholics.  Very strange behavior for a Catholic of any rite.

When did I attack the Roman Catholic Church?

I said "Roman Catholics."  See above.

I looked back over this whole thread and don't see where I attacked Roman Cathoilcs.  Is there something specific you're referring to?  Also, Rosarium, is rbj doing the same kind of diverting off the topic that I'm not allowed to do?

Are these not your words?
Quote:I'm starting to see a pattern among Latins.  You always want to blame people for things that happen to them that are completely outside of their control.  A Jew gets murdered for being Jewish.  "Well, it's their fault, they shouldn't have been Jewish.  They need to take personal responsibility."  A person is suffering the effects of Original Sin. "Well,it's their fault, they shouldn't have been one of the gene's in Adam's sperm when he made the choice.  They need to take personal responsibility."  You blame everything bad that happens to a person on the person that it happened to just cause it's easier to blame the victim than it is to hunt down the ACTUAL perpetrator and enact justice against them.  It's extremely immature.

And again:
Quote:It wasn't anyone from my particular church that debated how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.

The latter quote is particularly insulting to the theological tradition of the West, and disrespectful to the likes of various Doctors of the Church (as this made-up argument is used to discredit scholasticism).  A very dishonest tactic.


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#38
Melkite, what exactly do you mean by "Israel"?

Do you mean the government recognised by some nations called the State of Israel? Do you mean Zionism? Do you mean specific people? Do you mean the theological identification with the Church with Israel?

If it is anything but the last one, it is contrary to the Church. You should not so unconditionally have allegiance to anything of man, especially non Christians governments.
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#39
(12-08-2009, 05:25 PM)Rosarium Wrote: Melkite, what exactly do you mean by "Israel"?

Do you mean the government recognised by some nations called the State of Israel? Do you mean Zionism? Do you mean specific people? Do you mean the theological identification with the Church with Israel?

If it is anything but the last one, it is contrary to the Church. You should not so unconditionally have allegiance to anything of man, especially non Christians governments.

In this thread, I am referring to the State of Israel.  So, was rbj likewise diverting off the topic, and if so, why is it ok for him?
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#40
(12-08-2009, 05:29 PM)Melkite Wrote: In this thread, I am referring to the State of Israel.  So, was rbj likewise diverting off the topic, and if so, why is it ok for him?

I just wanted one last clarification. You say it is the State of Israel. I recommend you remove that unCatholic statement from you sig. Catholics should not have such attitudes at all.
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