Is It Sinful to Take a Minimalist View of Faith?
#91
(12-13-2009, 11:40 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:40 PM)obscurus Wrote: Of course you can have desires, hopes and dreams!! That is part of being human!
But God is just waiting to pull us away from them, isn't He?
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#92
(12-13-2009, 11:40 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:40 PM)obscurus Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:38 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:37 PM)obscurus Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:34 PM)nsper7 Wrote: What does it mean to be detached from things? Does it mean I cannot seek wealth, power, etc.? I have goals and desire and I feel that God is always out to ruin whatever I want to do.

The problem is when we set up these things as idols as many in the modern world do.

Does it mean that to follow God we must give up all our desires, hopes and dreams? Is that what it means? Because that seems like Hell right there (minus the fire and torment and God standing over us smiling I mean).

Of course you can have desires, hopes and dreams!! That is part of being human!

But God is just waiting to pull us away from them, isn't He?

As a child I desired inconceivable amounts of candy, to stay up endlessly, and to set various things on fire for my own enjoyment. My parents, in their considerably great wisdom, prohibited such things because they loved me and knew that there were better things for me than these. Until you can live like a child and allow God to be your father, you will be continually choosing things for yourself to your own perdition, where God, in his love and infinite wisdom, would have led you to far great things, if you had only allowed him to.

Your hopes, dreams, and aspirations for yourself are trite and insignificant to God; he has so much more in store for you than your own limited, little ideas.
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#93
(12-13-2009, 11:41 PM)actiofidei Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:28 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:26 PM)actiofidei Wrote: Even if you wanted to do the "bare minimum" and follow the Commandments and precepts of the Church, the greatest Commandment remains to love God. If you do not love God and only fear Him, you will not enter the Kingdom of God. That's the end of the story.

If you don't love God, and don't even want to, you have no hope. If you resist God's love, you will never receive it except for by some very extraordinary grace. That's not to say that such a grace won't be given you, or isn't being given to you presently. But if you imagine that you can persist in rejecting God's love and his call to sanctity, you are mistaken.

"And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life? But he said to him: What is written in the law? how readest thou? He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said to him: Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." Luke X xxv xxviii

Then in the end it comes down to love God or burn in Hell. In truth, that infuriates me, not that my opinion matters on the subject. Still, even the most despicable and evil of human dictators did not impose that requirement. How can I truly love God if the only other option is Hell?

Either you love God, and therefore want to be with him, or you don't love him, and therefore want to be away from him. God is good and all goodness is in God. It is necessary, then, that being away from God is the absence of all that is good (hell). Just because God is goodness itself and the absence of God is the greatest torment doesn't mean that God intentionally set up some ultimatum between him and hell, in which we are virtually compelled to choose him for fear of pain. There is just simply no other way around it when the thing you are choosing or not choosing is Goodness itself. There can't be Goodness and then another option for some other kind of goodness. There is only one God--there is only one Goodness to choose.

Sorry, but by virtue of what God is, this is the way things are. If you are unable to love God as a result of your own narrow view of the thing, then that is unfortunate indeed. Just know that he has loved you first, whatever you may think.

Then why does Dante describe the outermost ring of Hell (Limbo) as a place lacking physical torments, although separated from God.
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#94
(12-13-2009, 11:45 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:41 PM)actiofidei Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:28 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:26 PM)actiofidei Wrote: Even if you wanted to do the "bare minimum" and follow the Commandments and precepts of the Church, the greatest Commandment remains to love God. If you do not love God and only fear Him, you will not enter the Kingdom of God. That's the end of the story.

If you don't love God, and don't even want to, you have no hope. If you resist God's love, you will never receive it except for by some very extraordinary grace. That's not to say that such a grace won't be given you, or isn't being given to you presently. But if you imagine that you can persist in rejecting God's love and his call to sanctity, you are mistaken.

"And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life? But he said to him: What is written in the law? how readest thou? He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said to him: Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." Luke X xxv xxviii

Then in the end it comes down to love God or burn in Hell. In truth, that infuriates me, not that my opinion matters on the subject. Still, even the most despicable and evil of human dictators did not impose that requirement. How can I truly love God if the only other option is Hell?

Either you love God, and therefore want to be with him, or you don't love him, and therefore want to be away from him. God is good and all goodness is in God. It is necessary, then, that being away from God is the absence of all that is good (hell). Just because God is goodness itself and the absence of God is the greatest torment doesn't mean that God intentionally set up some ultimatum between him and hell, in which we are virtually compelled to choose him for fear of pain. There is just simply no other way around it when the thing you are choosing or not choosing is Goodness itself. There can't be Goodness and then another option for some other kind of goodness. There is only one God--there is only one Goodness to choose.

Sorry, but by virtue of what God is, this is the way things are. If you are unable to love God as a result of your own narrow view of the thing, then that is unfortunate indeed. Just know that he has loved you first, whatever you may think.

Then why does Dante describe the outermost ring of Hell (Limbo) as a place lacking physical torments, although separated from God.
Dante is not scripture.  He puts Saint Celestine V in Hell.
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#95
Quote:Your hopes, dreams, and aspirations for yourself are trite and insignificant to God; he has so much more in store for you than your own limited, little ideas.

But they are mine. Will I be condemned for seeking to meet them?
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#96
I find this quite depressing being unable to fulfill (or at least seek to) my hopes, desires and dreams.
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#97
(12-13-2009, 11:46 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
Quote:Your hopes, dreams, and aspirations for yourself are trite and insignificant to God; he has so much more in store for you than your own limited, little ideas.

But they are mine. Will I be condemned for seeking to meet them?

Maybe. If they lead you in a path contrary to God's will. So why gamble? Why not just allow him to lead you? You will be happier and brought to eternal happiness with him if you do.
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#98
(12-13-2009, 11:51 PM)actiofidei Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:46 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
Quote:Your hopes, dreams, and aspirations for yourself are trite and insignificant to God; he has so much more in store for you than your own limited, little ideas.

But they are mine. Will I be condemned for seeking to meet them?

Maybe. If they lead you in a path contrary to God's will. So why gamble? Why not just allow him to lead you? You will be happier and brought to eternal happiness with him if you do.

Well, if He wants to tell me anything, He knows where I am. Why should I seek after His will on my own?
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#99
(12-13-2009, 11:52 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:51 PM)actiofidei Wrote:
(12-13-2009, 11:46 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
Quote:Your hopes, dreams, and aspirations for yourself are trite and insignificant to God; he has so much more in store for you than your own limited, little ideas.

But they are mine. Will I be condemned for seeking to meet them?

Maybe. If they lead you in a path contrary to God's will. So why gamble? Why not just allow him to lead you? You will be happier and brought to eternal happiness with him if you do.

Well, if He wants to tell me anything, He knows where I am. Why should I seek after His will on my own?
His Will is to love.  Now go do it.
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Quote:His Will is to love.  Now go do it.

And what does that really mean?
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