Fr. Z sees red and does black deeds against Bishop Williamson
(12-16-2009, 11:44 PM)anthony Wrote: Gerard and Baskerville

The post-conciliar Church is the Church of Christ. There is no other.

Agreed, but you can liken it to a house that has many, unlivable rooms in it.  It's not the house that was built.   It's been damages and is in need of repair, but some people don't think it does.  They like the ruins.  

Quote: The doctrine has not changed, and if it appears to have changed because of the personal errors of certain clergymen,

Popes are those clergymen.  They have refused to defend the Catholic faith clearly and in its entirety.  

Quote:then our eyes are not seeing the reality, but an illusion - a similar illusion to that experienced by the instigators of the Protestant Revolt.

Those revolutionaries did not have the courtesy to leave like the original Protestants.  They want to stay inside and change it.  Card. Bea related a story to Fr. Malachi Martin of Hans Kung and Schillebeeckxs having a conversation in his presence where they said that exact thing.  

Trads have long been calling that Illusion "The Great Facade" covering over the real face of the Church for years now.

Quote: The Church's rites may have been tampered with, but with no affect on their validity and efficacy. We may choose to reject them. But it cannot be because they are positively wrong or evil; but merely because of how  and why they came to be, and what they might suggest with a little nudge in the wrong direction. Bishop Williamson did not voice his opinion in his way. Instead he robbed me of my trust in the promise of Christ with his dramatic speech. If he were less a sophist he might actually make friends with some we consider "neo-cons".

Which tampering?  The Latin versions or the hundreds of vernacular versions?   The jury hasn't even been brought into the "for all, for many" debate.  What good is a valid Latin form when no one uses it and instead uses a doubtful vernacular?  

If Bishop Williamson robbed you of your trust in the promise of Christ, then you misunderstand the promise of Christ.  

Quote: And no, I don't think the only John Calvins are the liberals. There are many trads who have a ****ed up view of the Church, doctrine, and who, as products of their age, have minds that are unhinged, off the rails, sick. At least +Williamson concedes the point that there is a grey area to some of what we can experience. Anyone who admits of a lighter or darker shade, and is shrill about it is no better than a certain raving German lunatic.

Angela Merkel?  

Quote: As for Fr. Z:  Do you know his station and work history?

Some of it, from what he told Hugh Hewitt and what he's written himself.  

Quote: I do. I also am roughly aware of his schedule on most days. I don't stock the man, but do read his blog.

I read his blog as well.   His schedule is irrelevant to the honesty level of the content he posts.

Quote: He's not perfect, nor is he perfectly consistent. But who can be? No, really, I mean it?

As I pointed above,  Williamson is consistent.  Has been for decades.  Popes have come and gone, he's been a priest, turned to bishop, become famous and infamous and he's still the same.  God bless him for it.  

Quote:There is so much uncertainty.

That is the problem that is radiating out from the hierarchy.  One of the most interesting things is how people laud Pope Benedict for  "finally doing something" about several issues that plague the Church.   Well, who was it that ignored those things?  The last two major Popes.  They fostered the uncertainty in the Church and Paul VI actually vocalized it in his description of the Church engaging in "auto-demolition."   And the amazing thing is Paul VI still took steps to ensure that the destruction would continue after him by stacking the College of Cardinals as much as possible with moderates and progressives.  

Quote:  The only certainty is to cling to Holy Mother Church the best one knows how. I don't blame Bishop Williamson for being an SSPX bishop, nor do I blame Fr. Z for reading him with suspicion.

St. Paul gave us explicit instructions on how to handle things in rough times.  I blame Fr. Z for not being an honest broker of news and commentary.   He's engaging in manipulative propaganda and smear campaigns.   He's responsible for that.

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Re: Fr. Z sees red and does black deeds against Bishop Williamson - by Gerard - 12-17-2009, 01:59 AM

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