New GIRM?
#41
(12-28-2009, 06:29 PM)Credo Wrote:
ResiduumRevertetur Wrote:They've got a great bookstore and lately they've been getting more into trad stuff.

I don't know if the National Shrine has more than one store on its campus, but I was in one of their stores once. It was below groundlevel, if that rings a bell. This was a few years ago on the vigil of the March for Life. The Shrine was holding a Mass for all the pro-lifers who would participate in the follow day's march. It was a total circus. The people there had no decorum whatsoever. It wasn't the Shine's fault, nor the "Novus Ordo," just the boob's who treated a basilica like a county fair. While in the Shrine store, I couldn't helped but think about the money changers in the Temple.
I could see that happening if a big crowd descended on them. It's not usually that way, though. I saw the crowds there once, when the surrounding dioceses descended on it for one of the Catechumenal Rites. It was mayhem.

And yes, AFAIK, that's the only shopping area. I don't really consider it being in very close proximity to the main church, though. I think of the whole place as more like a campus, really, just under one roof. I think it's incredible, really. I love it. If someone hasn't been, I recommend a visit if possible.
Reply
#42
(12-28-2009, 05:15 PM)Rosarium Wrote: It does not need relentless mockery from people online.

Actually, it does.  And that's why we're here!  ;D
Reply
#43
(12-28-2009, 02:21 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(12-28-2009, 10:40 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote: It's unfair to say "The Novus Ordo Church in all its glory" because these things are liturgical abuses precisely because they go against the liturgical laws of the "Novus Ordo Church".

"Abuses"? Please, spare us. These travesties have been sanctioned by the Church for the past 40 years, they are no longer properly called "abuses" but they are de facto liturgical practices of the New Church. The New Church can have within its ranks priests that offer the TLM and priests that offer balloon masses and they are all in communion with one another. It's all just a big party! There's no problem with it or any conflict in their minds because everything is tacitly allowed, nothing is really condemned, just like in any protestant Church.

The only liturgical "abuses" which have been sanctioned by the Church are altar girls, communion in the hand and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy communion. All of which are exceptions to the normative law of the Church.
Reply
#44
(12-29-2009, 12:01 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote:
(12-28-2009, 02:21 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(12-28-2009, 10:40 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote: It's unfair to say "The Novus Ordo Church in all its glory" because these things are liturgical abuses precisely because they go against the liturgical laws of the "Novus Ordo Church".

"Abuses"? Please, spare us. These travesties have been sanctioned by the Church for the past 40 years, they are no longer properly called "abuses" but they are de facto liturgical practices of the New Church. The New Church can have within its ranks priests that offer the TLM and priests that offer balloon masses and they are all in communion with one another. It's all just a big party! There's no problem with it or any conflict in their minds because everything is tacitly allowed, nothing is really condemned, just like in any protestant Church.

The only liturgical "abuses" which have been sanctioned by the Church are altar girls, communion in the hand and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy communion. All of which are exceptions to the normative law of the Church.

Those "abuses" you mentioned are already grave enough. However, the other "abuses" continue to be widespread and no one seems able or willing to put an end to them. We must conclude, then, that the hierarchy tacitly sanctions them, including the Pope.
Reply
#45
(12-29-2009, 09:34 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(12-29-2009, 12:01 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote:
(12-28-2009, 02:21 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(12-28-2009, 10:40 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote: It's unfair to say "The Novus Ordo Church in all its glory" because these things are liturgical abuses precisely because they go against the liturgical laws of the "Novus Ordo Church".

"Abuses"? Please, spare us. These travesties have been sanctioned by the Church for the past 40 years, they are no longer properly called "abuses" but they are de facto liturgical practices of the New Church. The New Church can have within its ranks priests that offer the TLM and priests that offer balloon masses and they are all in communion with one another. It's all just a big party! There's no problem with it or any conflict in their minds because everything is tacitly allowed, nothing is really condemned, just like in any protestant Church.

The only liturgical "abuses" which have been sanctioned by the Church are altar girls, communion in the hand and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy communion. All of which are exceptions to the normative law of the Church.

Those "abuses" you mentioned are already grave enough. However, the other "abuses" continue to be widespread and no one seems able or willing to put an end to them. We must conclude, then, that the hierarchy tacitly sanctions them, including the Pope.

Ah yes! Even though he's repeatedly condemned the abuses in word, deed and writing we have no choice but to conclude that he sanctions balloon Masses and wine cups holding the precious blood. That seems logical.
Reply
#46
(12-29-2009, 09:42 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote:
(12-29-2009, 09:34 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(12-29-2009, 12:01 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote:
(12-28-2009, 02:21 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(12-28-2009, 10:40 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote: It's unfair to say "The Novus Ordo Church in all its glory" because these things are liturgical abuses precisely because they go against the liturgical laws of the "Novus Ordo Church".

"Abuses"? Please, spare us. These travesties have been sanctioned by the Church for the past 40 years, they are no longer properly called "abuses" but they are de facto liturgical practices of the New Church. The New Church can have within its ranks priests that offer the TLM and priests that offer balloon masses and they are all in communion with one another. It's all just a big party! There's no problem with it or any conflict in their minds because everything is tacitly allowed, nothing is really condemned, just like in any protestant Church.

The only liturgical "abuses" which have been sanctioned by the Church are altar girls, communion in the hand and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy communion. All of which are exceptions to the normative law of the Church.

Those "abuses" you mentioned are already grave enough. However, the other "abuses" continue to be widespread and no one seems able or willing to put an end to them. We must conclude, then, that the hierarchy tacitly sanctions them, including the Pope.

Ah yes! Even though he's repeatedly condemned the abuses in word, deed and writing we have no choice but to conclude that he sanctions balloon Masses and wine cups holding the precious blood. That seems logical.

It's been almost 40 years since the Council and these travesties continue to happen daily worldwide. What do you honestly think? Are you naïve or are you just pretending to be so?
Reply
#47
Vetus Ordo Wrote:It's been almost 40 years since the Council and these travesties continue to happen daily worldwide.

Just as a point of illumination, forty years is nothing. It's a blip on the screen of Church history.
Reply
#48
If the pope supported liturgical abuse then why did John Paul II condemn so many of them? Why has Pope Benedict restored kneeling for communion to papal Mass? Is it all just to trick the trads into lovin' him?

Maybe he's too weak to properly discipline the many bishops and priests who treat the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass like a game show, but that means you should pray for him not condemn him and make stupid claims like he "tacitly approves" liturgical abuse despite clearly condemning it in official documents.
Reply
#49
(12-29-2009, 09:59 AM)Credo Wrote:
Vetus Ordo Wrote:It's been almost 40 years since the Council and these travesties continue to happen daily worldwide.

Just as a point of illumination, forty years is nothing. It's a blip on the screen of Church history.

Certainly.

However, it should be more than enough time for three popes in a row (minus John Paul I) to correct the "abuses" if they wanted, shouldn't it?
Reply
#50
(12-29-2009, 10:01 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote: If the pope supported liturgical abuse then why did John Paul II condemn so many of them? Why has Pope Benedict restored kneeling for communion to papal Mass? Is it all just to trick the trads into lovin' him?

Maybe he's too weak to properly discipline the many bishops and priests who treat the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass like a game show, but that means you should pray for him not condemn him and make stupid claims like he "tacitly approves" liturgical abuse despite clearly condemning it in official documents.

I'm not "condemning" him, I'm just stating a fact.

I'm saying that these "abuses" are tacitly approved by the current hierarchy in the Church simply because, all things considered, that is the reality. If for the past 40 years these liturgical "abuses" continue to happen daily without any ecclesiastical authority putting an end to them, then this means that they are tacitly approved, whether you like this obvious conclusion or not. The fact that the Pope decries theses abuses and calls the Pauline mass a "banal product" is the same thing as the fact that Paul VI complained about the "smoke of Satan" entering the Church: it doesn't really mean anything substantial or real since the show does and must go on.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)