i went to a tlm today...
#21
Joshua Wrote:Would you care to define what you mean by this, Credo?

Sure. Legally the Missal and Office published under the authority of Paul VI presently constitute large elements of the official worship of the Latin Rite.
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#22
(01-02-2010, 12:34 PM)Credo Wrote:
Joshua Wrote:Would you care to define what you mean by this, Credo?

Sure. Legally the Missal and Office published under the authority of Paul VI presently constitute large elements of the official worship of the Latin Rite.

I see. Legally speaking (and even this has been questioned)  the Novus Ordo Missae may, much to the detriment of the faithful, indeed comprise the bulk of liturgical worship being foisted upon the majority of Latin-Rite Catholics. However, the NO is most certainly not to be considered a legitimate development, contribution or product of the liturgical treasury of the Latin-Rite.

In Corde Regis,
Joshua
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#23
(01-01-2010, 09:24 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(01-01-2010, 09:00 PM)Credo Wrote:
Melkite Wrote:as a loyal melkite catholic

Melkite, do you know of any resources on the Eastern Rites for those who know next to nothing about the Eastern Churches?
  i was going to suggest byzcath.org, but i rarely ever look at it because it is from a ruthenian perspective, and they tend to be more latinized than the melkites.  there's a fine line in authentic eastern catholicism that is hard to perceive unless you have been in it for a while.  on the one side of that line, you have latinized parishes that don't seem to much care about prefering the eastern ways over the imported latin ones, and on the other side you have those who are bitter and angry at rome, and who idolize the orthodox to the point that they are often de facto schismatic, if not de jure.  my best suggestion is to find an authentic eastern parish and visit a few sundays.  there are few truly good ones, ones that are able to stay on that fine median line of authenticity, in this country.  if you tell me what state you're in i can try to find a good one for you.  things to look for in a good parish would be having vespers on saturday evening and orthros or matins before liturgy sunday morning.  and also only one liturgy on sundays.  you'd be surprised how many parishes will have a liturgy on saturday evening and two or three liturgies sunday morning, and no vespers or orthros at all.  another question is, during lent, do they have akathist on fridays, or do they have stations of the cross?  and, this may seem trivial, but does the priest have a beard or is he clean shaven?  all of these will show whether the priest and parish are committed to an authentic eastern parish life or are more or less indifferent.  of course, those signs only weed out the latinized parishes.  fortunately, though, at least in my experience, latinization can be a parish wide problem, but borderline schism is usually only an individual problem.

Very interesting, Melkite! I have been scrounging for an Eastern Rite Divine Liturgy for some time now in my area (El Paso, TX), but have come up with little to nothing.

Are pews considered a Latinization? How about the lack of chapel veils (perhaps more an import of NO parish life and not a "true" Latinization).

In Corde Regis,
Joshua
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#24
(01-01-2010, 06:24 PM)Melkite Wrote: it wasn't my first, but it turned out to be a solemn high mass, which i think is my first for that.  wow!  there was no instrumentation, all gregorian chant except for three hymns.  as a loyal melkite catholic, i can honestly say the solemn high mass is the second most beautiful thing this side of heaven! ;)  it is plain to see that this is the authentic roman liturgy, why anyone would prefer a novus ordo mass is beyond me.

i can appreciate the "tlm" but prefer a novus ordo ceremony, in english or latin, anytime.
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#25
LOL
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#26
(01-03-2010, 07:29 AM)dkpintar Wrote:
(01-01-2010, 06:24 PM)Melkite Wrote: it wasn't my first, but it turned out to be a solemn high mass, which i think is my first for that.  wow!  there was no instrumentation, all gregorian chant except for three hymns.  as a loyal melkite catholic, i can honestly say the solemn high mass is the second most beautiful thing this side of heaven! ;)  it is plain to see that this is the authentic roman liturgy, why anyone would prefer a novus ordo mass is beyond me.

i can appreciate the "tlm" but prefer a novus ordo ceremony, in english or latin, anytime.

Hi DK, What in particular do you like better about the NO?  :)
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#27
The after Mass activities???...LOL
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#28
(01-03-2010, 07:29 AM)dkpintar Wrote:
(01-01-2010, 06:24 PM)Melkite Wrote: it wasn't my first, but it turned out to be a solemn high mass, which i think is my first for that.  wow!  there was no instrumentation, all gregorian chant except for three hymns.  as a loyal melkite catholic, i can honestly say the solemn high mass is the second most beautiful thing this side of heaven! ;)  it is plain to see that this is the authentic roman liturgy, why anyone would prefer a novus ordo mass is beyond me.

i can appreciate the "tlm" but prefer a novus ordo ceremony, in english or latin, anytime.

So do Modernists and other enemies of the Faith.
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#29
(01-03-2010, 03:27 AM)Joshua Wrote: Very interesting, Melkite! I have been scrounging for an Eastern Rite Divine Liturgy for some time now in my area (El Paso, TX), but have come up with little to nothing.

Are pews considered a Latinization? How about the lack of chapel veils (perhaps more an import of NO parish life and not a "true" Latinization).

In Corde Regis,
Joshua

There is a Ruthenian parish in Irving, is that close to El Paso?  All the others I could find in Texas were in Houston or Austin.  Pews I think are not so much a Latinization as a Protestantization, since many Orthodox parishes in the West have pews as well.    Latin churches likewise used to not have pews, and from what I have heard, Latin parishes in Cuba still, for the most part, are pewless today.  But, the ideal is no pews, as during the consecration, it is traditional for the laity to make a full prostration, which is pretty much impossible with pews.  The lacy chapel veils that are common in the West (or were common in the West) wouldn't really be a latinization because it really doesn't pertain to the liturgy.  But a lot of women will wear instead of a veil, a large scarf around their head.  It makes them almost look like Muslim women.  Actually, if you have ever seen an Orthodox Jewish woman, the way they wrap their hair up in scarves, that is very similar to what many Eastern Catholic women wear, if they wear a head covering at all.
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#30
Joshua Wrote:However, the NO is most certainly not to be considered a legitimate development, contribution or product of the liturgical treasury of the Latin-Rite.

You're correct to a certain extent, if by "legitimate development" you are intending to say organic development. However, off of the top of my head, I would consider the addition of the Sub Tuum Praesidium to the closing Marian antiphons of Compline to be in the vein organic development, as is the highlighting of Lauds and Vespers in the Office, and the refocus -- how timely -- of Jan. 1st on the BVM.
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