Pope John Paul II meditating on the Tarot?
#21
ipi Wrote:i don't recall God killing anyone for their sins after Old Testament times.

Ananias and Sapphira, Acts 5.
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#22
(01-28-2010, 05:24 PM)i.p.i. Wrote: i don't recall God killing anyone for their sins after Old Testament times.

Just noticed the after part. Of coarse God has killed people for their sins after O.T. Times. God does not change. The God of the Old Testament, is the God of the New Testament, and is the God of today.

There are many stories by saints and other people over the centuries who have been killed by God for their sins. We Catholics believe in tradition. The bible stops after the first century, but salvation history continues in oral tradition.
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#23
Saint Raphael, nobody is denying that Tarot is bad. The question is whether John Paul II was a Tarot practitioner or "meditator" just because the books are on his desk. Like someone else said, they could have ended up in the trash can. When in doubt, give the benefit of the doubt.
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#24
Look, you cannot read hearts on the basis of what was on a person's desk!  You didn't read what the Pope wrote in the margins!  You haven't heard what the Pope said about it!  So you have nothing at all to go on.  

Christ also associated with hookers and mafia dons (i.e. publicans).  But that was okay because of what He said to them and how He conducted Himself  around them.  You don't know what the Pope thought about the book, so you are in no better position to condemn him than to condemn Christ for associating with hookers and mafia dons.  
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#25
(01-28-2010, 05:01 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: Does anyone have a summary of what these books are about?

I have read Meditations on the Tarot, by Anonymous.  It is a profound work.

The book is not about divination.  The author uses tarot cards as launching points for meditations on esoteric and exoteric aspects of the Catholic faith.  He urges those who have been involved in the occult or in Eastern religions to embrace Catholicism.  A convert from Anthroposophy and a former occultist himself, he is throwing a lifeline to those we would now call "New Age" people.

Although there are one or two things in the book that are flatly contrary to the teaching of the Church, it can help certain people to find their way back to the Church.  I would never recommend it except in these unusual cases, however.  For instance, I don't think that one can accept reincarnation (even the "fact" of reincarnation, held in the internal forum, as the author argues) without losing Catholic faith.  If someone has a subjective experience that seems like the memory of a past life, it could be caused by any number of things (including, I surmise, some kind of connection to the deceased -- even one willed by God).

Believe it or not, the book in many ways is extremely traditional.

A summary is offered here, at Ignatius Insight:  http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2..._apr07.asp

:owl:
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#26
(01-28-2010, 06:04 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Saint Raphael, nobody is denying that Tarot is bad. The question is whether John Paul II was a Tarot practitioner or "meditator" just because the books are on his desk. Like someone else said, they could have ended up in the trash can. When in doubt, give the benefit of the doubt.
Actually I had to write a couple of posts because some people were saying that the Tarot was not that bad.

I don't know if John Paul II read the books or not. Only God knows. I cannot believe that he actually threw the books in the trash. It is highly doubtful that he did because he was a friend and admirer of Von Balthsar. He loved the man. He loved his theology. He wanted the man to be cardinal.

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#27
(01-28-2010, 06:11 PM)SaintRafael Wrote:
(01-28-2010, 06:04 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Saint Raphael, nobody is denying that Tarot is bad. The question is whether John Paul II was a Tarot practitioner or "meditator" just because the books are on his desk. Like someone else said, they could have ended up in the trash can. When in doubt, give the benefit of the doubt.
Actually I had to write a couple of posts because some people were saying that the Tarot was not that bad.

I don't know if John Paul II read the books or not. Only God knows. I cannot believe that he actually threw the books in the trash. It is highly doubtful that he did because he was a friend and admirer of Von Balthsar. He loved the man. He loved his theology. He wanted the man to be cardinal.

And if you read the link above you will see that Balthasar rightly pointed out the errors in the book.  That's part of what he did in the introduction. 
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#28
Look on the bright side.  At least he isn't kissing both volumes. ;)
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#29
Someone suggested posting the following from another thread in this thread. I've saved it on my computer to reread. .

From St. Catherine of Siena's "Dialogue with God." God instructs her .........

Quote: Another thing is necessary for you to arrive at this union and purity, namely, that you should never judge the will of man in anything that you may see done or said by any creature whatsoever, either to yourself or to others. My will alone should you consider, both in them and in yourself. And, if you should see evident sins or defects, draw out of those thorns the rose, that is to say, offer them to Me, with holy compassion. In the case of injuries done to yourself, judge that My will permits this in order to prove virtue in yourself, and in My other servants, esteeming that he who acts thus does so as the instrument of My will; perceiving, moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart of man. That which you do not see you should not judge in your mind, even though it may externally be open mortal sin, seeing nothing in others, but My will, not in order to judge, but, as has been said, with holy compassion. In this way you will arrive at perfect purity, because acting thus, your mind will not be scandalized, either in Me or in your neighbor. Otherwise you fall into contempt of your neighbor, if you judge his evil will towards you, instead of My will acting in him. Such contempt and scandal separates the soul from Me, and prevents perfection, and, in some cases, deprives a man of grace, more or less according to the gravity of his contempt, and the hatred which his judgment has conceived against his neighbor.
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#30
The link is to Ignatius Insight. Well of course Ignatius Press is going to defend Von Balthsar. They have to justify carrying all his books and theology writings some way. Ignatius Press is never going to admit that Von Balthasar is heretical and his work heretical.

For a different perspective:

Von Balthasar's Occultism
http://wquercus.com/faith/balthasar_occult.htm

The article deals with Von balthsar's foreword and the book Meditations on the Tarot. It exposes the errors.
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