The Church fathers on women
This thread was dead about 10 pages ago.  We are wrestling with a straw man.  Anyhow, I am done.  I'm giving up posting for Lent, so this is my last night for awhile.

For those who are not married, talk over this issue during your marriage prep with a Trad priest.  And read the Bible (pretty clear on this topic) and the two encyclicals that were mentioned.  And have Faith the Church knows what she is talking about.
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(02-16-2010, 06:52 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-16-2010, 06:27 PM)Magnificat Wrote: You're still not understanding what "love" means in this instance, though; I'm talking about the Catholic definition, not the limited modern egalitarian one.  Love is not just an end, but a means.  It's not separate, and it doesn't stop where humility, obedience, or charity begin, but it makes those things possible (along with the grace which comes from the sacrament of marriage).

Perhaps you could clarify why you think that I do not understand the Catholic definition of love.  Much of the time in Catholic teaching the Latin word "caritas" is translated as "charity" and other times as "love".  I wonder how well you understand the Catholic definition of love if you consider it as something distinct from charity.

I guess the phrase "it's not separate" does not mean what I think it means?  Perhaps, in addition to not understanding the Catholic definition of love, I also have trouble with the English language?  Or maybe you just like to argue?  Either way, Jayne, I don't have time for this today (or probably any other day); nothing I could say would make much difference.  You're a full glass. 
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(02-17-2010, 09:51 AM)Magnificat Wrote:
(02-16-2010, 06:52 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-16-2010, 06:27 PM)Magnificat Wrote: You're still not understanding what "love" means in this instance, though; I'm talking about the Catholic definition, not the limited modern egalitarian one.  Love is not just an end, but a means.  It's not separate, and it doesn't stop where humility, obedience, or charity begin, but it makes those things possible (along with the grace which comes from the sacrament of marriage).

Perhaps you could clarify why you think that I do not understand the Catholic definition of love.  Much of the time in Catholic teaching the Latin word "caritas" is translated as "charity" and other times as "love".  I wonder how well you understand the Catholic definition of love if you consider it as something distinct from charity.

I guess the phrase "it's not separate" does not mean what I think it means?  Perhaps, in addition to not understanding the Catholic definition of love, I also have trouble with the English language?   Or maybe you just like to argue?   Either way, Jayne, I don't have time for this today (or probably any other day); nothing I could say would make much difference.  You're a full glass.   

I made the point that the words "love" and "charity" are interchangeable -different words frequently used to mean the same thing. You did not address this with the phrase "it's not separate."  It is clear that you are treating "love" and "charity" as having distinct meanings if we substitute "love" where you put "charity'. You pretty much wrote in your first quote above that love does not stop where love (among other things) begins and that love makes love (among other things) possible.  This does not make much sense as far as I can tell.

You told me that I do not understand the Catholic definition of love.  I would like you to support that statement.  What is the Catholic definition of love?  What have I written that is inconsistent with that?  If you think that expecting people to back up their remarks is liking to argue, then I suppose that I like to argue.  But I am not ruling out the possibility that you have trouble with English.  I found both of your quotes above rather unclear, although you are doing remarkably well if it is not your native language.
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(02-16-2010, 08:02 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: You guys are making mountains out of molehills. The simplest solution here: trads should never take other trads' marriage advice. Figure it out on your own, or ask a cleric if you're really stuck.


By the way, women are evil. Just so you know.




Cant live with 'em; cant live without 'em... ;D
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(02-21-2010, 05:23 PM)In nomine Patris Wrote: Can't live with 'em, pass the beer nuts.

Fixed.
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