The Church fathers on women
(02-11-2010, 09:02 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-11-2010, 04:11 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: You've made it clear before that you have a lower opinion of women than you do of men. For you to make such an assumption about people you've never even met is rash judgement at best. If you can't take my story at face value, and insist that by hook or by crook it had to be the woman's fault, then this conversation is clearly useless and will lead nowhere.

I have not made clear that I have a lower opinion of women that I do of men.  I have said no such thing and I believe no such thing.  As I recall, I have explicitly denied it on previous occasions when accused of it.  Nor have I made any assumptions about the people in your example.  I have repeatedly said that we don't know enough to make any assumptions or judgements. I did not insist that it had to be the woman's fault.  I said that, based on my experience, it seemed likely to me that her account was biased.  I would have said the same thing if we had gotten only the man's side of the story.  As a general principle, I want to hear both sides of a story before making any judgements. 

The reason this conversation is leading nowhere is that you do not respond to what I actually say.  You insist on using straw man arguments.  You also use emotionally-laden terms, over-generalizations and false dichotomies.  In fact, you commit one logical fallacy after another.  I am trying to be sensitive to your obvious emotional distress around this topic, but I find your complete lack of logic very frustrating. 

Perhaps you just want to vent and not engage in reasoned debate at all.  I could deal with that if your venting did not involve unfair statements about men.  There are plenty of men, traditional Catholic or otherwise, who are decent people who would make good husbands.  I have seen many single men posting here whom I would place in that category.  I see no reason (certainly not based on FE posts) to think that there is some sort of epidemic of men who abuse authority which makes it impossible to find a good husband.

(02-11-2010, 04:11 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: I liked Scipio's response not in particular because he called anyone a dork (although I do enjoy his over-the-top way of writing) but because I also feel that a real man would have too much confidence to be overly concerned with the petty details of obedience. That is the only kind of man I could have any respect for.

You are the one overly concerned about petty details of obedience.  Other people are telling you that when a couple loves each other and is trying to do the right thing it all works out.  You want details about how the man's authority is going to be limited and how he will be held accountable.  Getting married is not just about respecting a man.  You also have to trust him and not be so worried about how he might abuse his authority. 

You are utterly bewildering. I never said it was impossible to find a good husband. I am trying to have a discussion about where to draw the line in authority in a marriage. This is a perfectly valid topic for discussion.

You're the one who is generalizing, using straw man arguments, and ignoring what I say. Other people have actually responded directly to my comments, even if they don't always agree; I wonder why you can't do the same?

And let me just add that I heard the story about the pants from my friend who worked as a nanny for the couple. I have no idea if it was the husband or the wife who told it to her. So yes, you are making assumptions. You also went out of your way to find reasons why the situation might actually have been the woman's fault.
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Messages In This Thread
The Church fathers on women - by Metatron - 02-09-2010, 01:11 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Vetus Ordo - 02-09-2010, 01:17 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-09-2010, 10:13 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by glgas - 02-09-2010, 10:32 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Anastasia - 02-09-2010, 10:36 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-09-2010, 10:46 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-09-2010, 11:41 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by quoprimumV - 02-09-2010, 12:33 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by tflinn - 02-09-2010, 12:46 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Petertherock - 02-09-2010, 12:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-09-2010, 12:56 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-09-2010, 01:31 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by glgas - 02-09-2010, 01:34 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Pilgrim - 02-09-2010, 06:04 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-09-2010, 07:30 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-09-2010, 07:47 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-09-2010, 08:00 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-09-2010, 08:14 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-09-2010, 09:01 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by fabricdragon - 02-09-2010, 09:42 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-09-2010, 10:10 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SoCalLocal - 02-09-2010, 10:18 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Metatron - 02-09-2010, 10:26 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-09-2010, 10:34 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Metatron - 02-09-2010, 10:42 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-09-2010, 10:49 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-09-2010, 10:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 01:15 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 01:17 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Metatron - 02-10-2010, 01:37 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Metatron - 02-10-2010, 01:48 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Metatron - 02-10-2010, 01:55 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by PeterII - 02-10-2010, 02:14 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 02:49 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 02:52 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 03:00 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 03:23 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Metatron - 02-10-2010, 03:25 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 04:03 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 04:06 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 04:31 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 01:24 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 01:28 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 02:22 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 02:25 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 02:29 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 02:37 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 02:41 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 02:43 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 02:45 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 02:47 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 02:48 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 02:48 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 02:51 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-10-2010, 02:51 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 02:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 02:59 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 03:10 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 03:17 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 03:19 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 03:36 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-10-2010, 03:44 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 04:06 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 04:34 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-10-2010, 04:40 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 05:01 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 05:01 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-10-2010, 05:06 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Anastasia - 02-10-2010, 05:31 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 06:19 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 06:27 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 06:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-10-2010, 08:11 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 08:18 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 08:36 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 09:10 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 09:16 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 09:53 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-10-2010, 10:13 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-10-2010, 10:22 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 10:42 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-10-2010, 10:43 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-10-2010, 10:46 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Anastasia - 02-10-2010, 10:55 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-10-2010, 11:01 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 12:04 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 12:05 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 12:10 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-11-2010, 12:12 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 12:18 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 12:29 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 12:39 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 12:40 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 12:48 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-11-2010, 12:53 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 12:53 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 01:06 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 01:11 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by PeterII - 02-11-2010, 02:39 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-11-2010, 03:09 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 08:09 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 08:13 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 08:39 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 08:46 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 09:04 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 12:00 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Anastasia - 02-11-2010, 12:11 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 12:21 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 12:26 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 01:43 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 02:56 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 03:25 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 03:46 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 04:11 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 04:30 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-11-2010, 04:37 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 05:14 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 05:25 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 05:57 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by PeterII - 02-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-11-2010, 06:45 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 06:57 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-11-2010, 07:15 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 07:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 09:02 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 09:11 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 09:32 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 09:44 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 09:50 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 09:57 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 09:59 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 10:02 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 10:05 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 10:08 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-11-2010, 10:20 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 10:30 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by PeterII - 02-11-2010, 10:44 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-11-2010, 10:44 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-11-2010, 10:48 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 10:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 10:59 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 11:07 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-11-2010, 11:13 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 11:17 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-11-2010, 11:31 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-11-2010, 11:43 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-11-2010, 11:46 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 11:48 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-11-2010, 11:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-11-2010, 11:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 12:17 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JonW - 02-12-2010, 12:24 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 12:27 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 12:33 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by PeterII - 02-12-2010, 02:21 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JonW - 02-12-2010, 04:47 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 11:07 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 11:20 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 11:27 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Anastasia - 02-12-2010, 11:57 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-12-2010, 12:13 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-12-2010, 12:20 PM
Church Fathers on Women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 12:32 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by LoveJLove - 02-12-2010, 12:40 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 12:47 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 12:56 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 01:02 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-12-2010, 01:09 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-12-2010, 01:12 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by LoveJLove - 02-12-2010, 01:16 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 01:27 PM
Re: Church Fathers on Women - by SCG - 02-12-2010, 01:33 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-12-2010, 01:34 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by LoveJLove - 02-12-2010, 01:36 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 01:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 01:58 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 02:08 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JonW - 02-12-2010, 02:21 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 02:26 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 02:28 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 02:29 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JonW - 02-12-2010, 02:36 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 02:39 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JonW - 02-12-2010, 02:39 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 02:41 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JonW - 02-12-2010, 02:47 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 03:07 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by LoveJLove - 02-12-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 03:22 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 03:24 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 03:48 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 03:59 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 04:03 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 04:07 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 04:16 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 04:18 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 04:20 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 04:27 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 04:33 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by LoveJLove - 02-12-2010, 04:36 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 04:38 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 04:49 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 04:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 04:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 04:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 04:58 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-12-2010, 05:00 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 05:03 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 05:05 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-12-2010, 05:10 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 05:12 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 05:13 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-12-2010, 05:20 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 05:25 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 05:32 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 05:33 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-12-2010, 05:40 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 05:40 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 05:41 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-12-2010, 05:44 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-12-2010, 05:48 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 05:48 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Pilgrim - 02-12-2010, 05:49 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-12-2010, 05:50 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 05:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 05:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-12-2010, 06:17 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 06:38 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-12-2010, 07:04 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-12-2010, 08:01 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-12-2010, 08:19 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-12-2010, 10:01 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-12-2010, 11:46 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-13-2010, 12:59 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-13-2010, 01:11 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-13-2010, 01:13 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-13-2010, 01:35 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-13-2010, 01:47 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-13-2010, 02:31 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-13-2010, 03:08 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-13-2010, 03:19 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-13-2010, 06:47 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-13-2010, 07:01 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-13-2010, 07:55 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-13-2010, 08:11 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-13-2010, 08:34 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-13-2010, 08:40 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-13-2010, 09:36 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 11:14 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 11:22 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Mommie2Boys - 02-13-2010, 04:35 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-13-2010, 05:37 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 05:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 05:56 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-13-2010, 06:13 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 06:45 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-13-2010, 07:10 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 07:40 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-13-2010, 07:46 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 07:59 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-13-2010, 08:00 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 08:08 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-13-2010, 08:19 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 08:30 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-13-2010, 09:06 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-13-2010, 10:03 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-13-2010, 10:19 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-13-2010, 10:23 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 10:45 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-13-2010, 10:46 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Iolanthe - 02-13-2010, 10:49 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-13-2010, 10:53 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-13-2010, 10:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 11:13 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-13-2010, 11:20 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 11:26 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Mommie2Boys - 02-13-2010, 11:31 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Mommie2Boys - 02-13-2010, 11:33 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 11:34 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-13-2010, 11:35 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-13-2010, 11:36 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-13-2010, 11:44 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 11:48 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-13-2010, 11:56 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-14-2010, 12:40 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-14-2010, 02:54 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-14-2010, 12:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Bonifacius - 02-14-2010, 01:15 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by alaric - 02-14-2010, 06:11 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-14-2010, 10:58 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-14-2010, 11:18 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-14-2010, 11:48 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-14-2010, 11:55 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-15-2010, 12:21 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-15-2010, 12:38 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by SCG - 02-15-2010, 01:19 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Stephanos - 02-15-2010, 10:12 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-15-2010, 10:29 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-15-2010, 11:34 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-15-2010, 11:43 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Mommie2Boys - 02-15-2010, 03:54 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-15-2010, 04:21 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-15-2010, 04:31 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-15-2010, 05:14 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by INPEFESS - 02-15-2010, 05:58 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-15-2010, 08:08 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by INPEFESS - 02-15-2010, 08:11 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Satori - 02-15-2010, 08:19 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-16-2010, 09:48 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-16-2010, 01:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-16-2010, 04:10 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-16-2010, 04:39 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by INPEFESS - 02-16-2010, 04:50 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by INPEFESS - 02-16-2010, 05:37 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-16-2010, 06:27 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-16-2010, 06:31 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Scipio_a - 02-16-2010, 06:41 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-16-2010, 06:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-16-2010, 07:12 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-16-2010, 07:52 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Mommie2Boys - 02-16-2010, 08:36 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by James02 - 02-16-2010, 09:39 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by Historian - 02-17-2010, 09:51 AM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by JayneK - 02-21-2010, 04:47 PM
Re: The Church fathers on women - by cgraye - 02-21-2010, 06:01 PM



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