New missal not here yet, but Catholics urged to start talking about it
#21
(02-09-2010, 11:17 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Getting the English to correspond with the traditional Latin is an important step in improving the liturgy and it will affect the whole Church - therefore it will affect traditionalists.

I don't see it that way - this is getting the English to correspond with the Latin in the Pauline Missal.  Most of the 1962 Missals have perfectly fine English translations.  So, it doesn't help at all, really.  The problem is not rooted in the English translation, but in the Pauline Missal itself.  The English translation problems were just additional monkey business to make the Mass even less Catholic and more ecumenical / inclusive.

The only way it affects traditionalists is that more people will start to figure out that it's "for many" and not "for all" and investigate EENS.  Then, hopefully, some of the religious indifference will go away.

But, you know, the bad guys don't listen to Rome anyhow, and they haven't been made to, so they'll probably just wing the Mass like they always did, and the EWTN priests will follow the new translation, but most people who follow EWTN aren't religiously indifferent anyhow.

So, while I think it's important they fix these things, I don't see much of a net practical effect based solely on the translation.  Get rid of EMHC's, altar girls, and Communion-in-the-hand, and then we'll start seeing a change I think.

But I'm cynical, so hopefully I'm wrong.

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#22
I think the question as to whether this will affect traditionalism and bring people back into the fold is whether, like you said Quis, it is enforced or not.  God help us if they've gone through all this trouble to fix a bit of the language and then it never really gets implemented.
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#23
(02-11-2010, 06:45 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-09-2010, 11:17 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Getting the English to correspond with the traditional Latin is an important step in improving the liturgy and it will affect the whole Church - therefore it will affect traditionalists.

I don't see it that way - this is getting the English to correspond with the Latin in the Pauline Missal.  Most of the 1962 Missals have perfectly fine English translations.  So, it doesn't help at all, really.  The problem is not rooted in the English translation, but in the Pauline Missal itself.  The English translation problems were just additional monkey business to make the Mass even less Catholic and more ecumenical / inclusive.

But much of the new translation does correspond to what is also in the old missal, such as "for many" instead of "for all"; and "I believe" instead of "We believe"; and "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault" and "Lord I am not worthy that you should come under my roof."

Quis Wrote:But, you know, the bad guys don't listen to Rome anyhow, and they haven't been made to, so they'll probably just wing the Mass like they always did, and the EWTN priests will follow the new translation, but most people who follow EWTN aren't religiously indifferent anyhow.

But we've always had bad guys. The act of "winging the Mass" by an indifferent priest could have easily been done in Pre Vatican II days when people couldn't hear the words of the priest that were said in a language they didn't understand anyway. Religious indifference is age-old and it's only one problem. Liberals and progressives were not indifferent when they brought in their novelties. They were gun-ho. Our hope is to get everyone to be gun-ho for the right things and for the reasons.

Quis Wrote:Get rid of EMHC's, altar girls, and Communion-in-the-hand, and then we'll start seeing a change I think.

True.. and yet the above have nothing to do with Vatican II or even the Novus Ordo. One can blame the "spirit" of VII, but even that's a stretch because such practices were unheard of in the years following the Council. As more orthodox men fill the seminaries, and more orthodox bishops take their seats, I predict those additions will be subtracted.

Quis Wrote:But I'm cynical, so hopefully I'm wrong....

I hate to say I hope you're wrong too, so I'll pray you be less cynical. lol
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#24
I'm glad that there's a new translation. Hopefully this reform of the NO Mass continues. Next we need the indult for communion in the hand revoked and a no nonsense document enforcing the use of gregorian chant and latin in the ordinary of the Mass, as the GIRM recommends. I think this will be a ground up thing though, the new liturgical movement will gather more steam as the liberals die off. I was happy to see that in my couuntry's largest archdiocese the retreat for training youth ministers had the Mass offered ad orientem.
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