Why would God create a soul he knows will go to Hell?
(02-19-2010, 03:10 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote: Simmer down… an answer like what you gave (upon re-read) misses my point.  So, I'm just saying, if God knows what a soul (with free will) will do, he could just not bring said soul into being.


Iuvenalis wrote: “It's not the same as forcing you to do something it is only making those he knows will persevere finally. It is different.

Right.  You make it sound like getting damned is the worst thing that could happen and a good God should be in the business of only allowing good things to happen. 

But getting damned is not the worst thing that can happen.  Getting damned is only the worst thing that can happen to the one who is damned.  Judas’s damnable betrayal of Jesus was the means whereby Jesus opened the gates of heaven to all those in the bosom of Abraham and all of mankind thereafter.  That is, good is derived from the bad of the damned.

Not only does God get good fruit to blossom from the limbs of the damned, but the fact of the damn’s damnation is in and of itself a good.  God Who is love, is constitutionally incapable of anything but love.  Ergo, damnation rather than annihilation is the best most loving thing to do ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.  It’s only the worst thing, in my considered opinion, when you do not consider the other things (e.g., justice and heroic virtues sparked by demonic vices) other than the damned.

Iuvenalis wrote: “Yes, less or no souls in Hell would be preferable. God says so.”

No He doesn’t.  God says he does not wish the destruction of the wicked, only their repentance.  That’s not the same as saying He doesn’t want the unrepentant to go to hell.

Iuvenalis wrote: “Apparently it is a numbers game, as I am under the impression God created us to know him and love him in this life and the next. God, in his triune perfection, nonetheless, wanted our love. Love cannot be given to one's self, thus he created us. So, it is a numbers game, as one (God) was apparently a 'lonely' number.”

You are wrong on so many counts here, I don’t know where to begin.  Suffice it to say that if, as you say, God relied on creation to love Him because He could not love himself, well, He’d be no God.  By definition, God is without needs. 

When the Baltimore Catechism (that you seem to be referring to and which was written for children) expresses theological percepts by ascribing needs or wants or motives to God, it is a kind of baby talk, not meant to be taken literally. 

Iuvenalis wrote: “Aesthetic value" derived from eternally tormented souls?! You're sick man.”

“Eternally tormented souls” is your emotionally laden phrase which inaccurately describes damnation.  To the degree we do not have the imagination to conceive of a timeless state, which is what eternity is, damnation seems to be the construct of a sadist and vengeful god. 

So once we scratch “eternally” from your “eternally tormented souls,” what’s left is “tormented souls.”  Still sounds bad until you recognize that those souls are tormented exactly to the degree that they continue to chose damnation.  Hell, like heaven, is a dynamic state of being, operative to the degree that it is continuously chosen. 

To illustrate.  Let’s say the damnable offence is that of a young boy tearing the wings off a fly.  Justice demands that God swat the offender’s butt.  This is aesthetically more appealing than the unjust alternative, that the little brat get away with his cruelty.  So visualize hell as a collection of little boys hell bent on torturing flies who are in turn being tortured for their intransigent ways. – Cheers, Albert Cipriani

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Re: Why would God create a soul he knows will go to Hell? - by albert - 02-23-2010, 02:37 AM

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